From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 15:46:49 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970314103713_-1539400509@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 209 Lines: 8 In a message dated 13/03/97 20:10:05, you write: >Now, where did I put my NBC suit? I'm expecting a barrel full of flames.. Bucket of cold water more like :) Bob. (If only I had Bill's money - and SAM...) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 15:46:49 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:37:20 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970314103719_-1237820221@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 681 Lines: 25 In a message dated 14/03/97 10:48:29, you write: >On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Mr P R Walker wrote: > >> >> > How about getting HD drives to work on SAM? Double the disk size. Don't >> > know about the hardware but the software should be quite easy. >> > Just an idea. >> >> Not a bad one at that. > >What the software side will involve, is a complete reorganisation of the >Sam's directory and file structure. But heck, that needs doing anyway. > > >Andrew Possible. But could it be done just by making the sectors 1024 bytes or the used Sector Allocation Map could have each entry = 2 sectors. We would then have to find room only for the larger buffers. Just an idea :) Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 15:46:49 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:37:20 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970314103720_-1204273213@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 313 Lines: 11 In a message dated 14/03/97 14:01:40, you write: >More likely is being able to handle 10 x 1024byte spt -- same result, less >sync data, slightly more unreliable. But heck, if we really really really >wanted that much reliability, we'd still be using 128byte sectors. > >Simon And 8 inch floppy discs :) Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 15:46:49 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:37:24 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970314103718_-1304931517@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 480 Lines: 17 In a message dated 14/03/97 09:01:45, you write: >On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> Got it!!!! >> >> How about getting HD drives to work on SAM? Double the disk size. Don't >> know about the hardware but the software should be quite easy. >> >> Just an idea. > >Bloody hell! I was beginning to think there would never be a good idea >coming from Samsboss... *wink* Anyone go any ideas of how to do it and still keep a 1772 compatible mode? Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 15:46:57 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:37:45 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970314103717_-1371912381@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2253 Lines: 45 In a message dated 13/03/97 23:27:39, you write: [major snip] >You say your type(1) SRAM will not be a big seller, and complain that the >first steps must be commencially viable. I would think that the SRAM will be commercially viable, not right away maybe but as other bits of the extended SAM come along it will be more important tot have the SRAM card. But no matter which way I look at it - there has to be an SRAM card there at some point and there are more reasons for doing it now reather than later. > >You seem to display very little knowledge of what Sam users actually want, >and have proved this on several occasions. You don't see why an improved >processor would be popular; well, to coin a phrase, if you don't want it >then you don't have to support it, but I for one can't see any reason why >people would want to knock it. I have never said that the improved processor would not be popular, it just that it won't be particularly useable until the SRAM card is done. Add to this that it will be easier to develop things with the SRAM card. You see the Z380 in a very limited way, as an accelerator for SAM. I see it as a replacement for SAM, the heart of SAMSON - freed from the bond that Bruce's hardware would impose on it if your route is followed. We start with it just acting as a slave processor, that is true, but quite quickly the Z380 becomes the main processor and the Z80 becomes the slave. BUT. To get there it is going to be necessary to make some quite radical alterations to the existing SAM operating system. Yes we could go streight for coding a Z380 system but, to the best of my knowledge, there are only three people on this list who have had experiance of such a big project. It to Andy Wright 6 months to get to the reasonably stable ROM+DOS stage. That was with him often working 16 hour days(or longer) 7 days a week. We can't hope to do that. The only way to write the operating system for the Z380 and the graphics board is to use generating software working from a language defining syntax. I feel, and so do those whose judgement I trust, that until we can /PLAY/ with the existing system (and make changes as required) we can't hope to be able to sit down and define what we want. > > >Andrew Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 16:02:11 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:52:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@kola.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Codependant CPUs In-Reply-To: <970314100016_414806055@emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1202 Lines: 23 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Oh I do look forward to the Z380/A.N.Other card, it will be nice to get our > collective teeth into. But there is a lot of work to be done first. OK. Here's what I'm going to do to help the Z380 (and possibly the graphics accelerator, aswell):- Since my final year project is almost over (in a few week, unfortunately) I'll have a nice working 68HC11 processor board working. I'm going to look at ways of communicating between the SAM and the 68HC11. Since the 68HC11 chip runs a lot slower than the Z80B (2MHz), it'll still be able to emulate the problems of using a higher speed chip. Then again, people probably already know how to communicate and what I'm gonna do will be for my benifit only... Oh well.. (another email for you guys to ignore) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 16:02:12 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:58:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: <970314100008_-802120282@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 836 Lines: 19 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > SRAM designs are ready may I remind you, all Nev and I asked for originally > was for some people to give them the once over and spot any problems and/or > point out any improvements that could be made. What have we been doing other than pointing out the possible improvements? Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 16:57:49 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:39:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@indigo.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: <970314100016_414806055@emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 6002 Lines: 141 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 13/03/97 18:45:08, you write: > >The option(1) SRAM board does not fulfil this requirement. You keep > >telling me it has nothing to do with SamSon. > > Correct, it is to do with SAM. It is one of the many cards that I hope will > be developed to add on to exisiting SAMs. At some point all these cards _MAY_ > get converted into SAMSON. What you're saying is that the SRAM card, as you see it, does not need ever to have any connection to a Z380 or any other processor except the Sam's internal Z80B. What you also say is that the first step needs to be a useful one which helps drive the project forward, a necessary intermediate step. The SRAM card as currently designed does not fulfill that criterion. > >An option(2) SRAM card would fit the bill, but you seem to be holding out > >for your own way, yet again. > > Because the Z380 does not exist yet - even in prototype form. To think about > making the card Z380 compatible would be daft at this stage - If the Z380 > /needs/ an SRAM card of its own then one will be produced, although I dont > thnink one will be needed (maybe wrong, but I think it would be easier to > make the Z380's system completely RAM based). That is your opinion which I defend your right to have. [cut] > Ah! There is the point of your misunderstanding I think. The object of the I understand what you are saying. I disagree with it, I have suggestted improvements. If you never intended to listen to suggesttions in the first place, which you clearly don't, then why did you bring this topic up on the list in the first place? Was it, perhaps, in order to divert attention away from the "Who are WCC" debates? (And don't think the jury's not still out on that) [cut] > >You treat this list as a property, as if we are only here to grant your > >every whim: THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT IS. You are, essentially, no different > >to any other subscriber here, by no authority can you expect your word to > >be taken as law. You edit Format magazine, so what? There are an > >overwhelming number of "famous names" on this list, either by connections > >with some magazine, by writing programs, by designing hardware, or by some > >combination of the three. > > > >In short; you get one vote, just like everybody else. > > But since when has this list been a voting list? But since when have you been in charge around here? This has been a voting list ever since someone (I think it was James Curry) said: "Let's have a vote!" [cut] > >> How can you design an interface for a processor board that does not > >> even exist yet - even in rough design. > > > >Well, it seems that Simon Cooke disagreed, and given that he's been > >involved in the accelerator prototype, I would guess that he understands > >exactly what is involved. > > The accelerator and the Z380 board have some things in common - but they are > not the same thing. Did I say they were? Merely that Simon understands the hardware principles involved, far better than either me or you. Besides, even if the Z380 board doesn't exist, the Z380 itself does, and the basic functions of the connector board are pretty obvious. It IS possible to build an SRAM board now that will be Z380 compatible, as well as plugging into the back of the Sam. > I would think that Simon will be the first to admit that to use the Z380 to > its best it means starting from scratch, using what has been learned from the > accelerator project, and looking at what is wanted for the new system. I want to know what you think, or what Simon thinks. I don't care what you think Simon would think. > >Bob, I think I would get less annoyed with you if you said things like "I > >think ..." as opposed to "Everybody who is not in an advanced state of > >mental decay, should think ...". Particularly when your comment is so > >obviously way off the mark. > > I have to write this as quickly as possible, almost as if I was talking on > the phone. Given more time I would have room for the niceties of life but I > dont. And just what has that got to do with the previous paragraph? [cut] > Oh I do look forward to the Z380/A.N.Other card, it will be nice to get our > collective teeth into. But there is a lot of work to be done first. > > I tell you what, once I've got FORMAT off to the printers I will try to do a > block diagram which may make things a little clearer. Don't patronise me. You may think you know what you're doing, but the tide of expert opinion is set dead against you, and you simply haven't got the sense to see it. Your whole attitude towards this list has got to change, Bob. You are not the boss here. You are not the headmaster, we are not the little school pupils running around doing what you say. We are all individuals, with our individual opinions and our individual skills. You are one of about fifty people on this list, all on an equal footing. You are not 'better than' anybody else, you command no more respect than anybody else. Less in fact, as far as I'm concerned. I know what setup you are trying to achieve. But I can see exactly where you're actually driving this project - up the spout. I'm going home tomorrow, I would love to continue this conversation, but it really is like talking to a brick wall. I severely doubt that after the easter vactation, when I came back on-line, that you will have budged an inch. Such is the way of the world. But go on Bob, why not surprise me. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 17:28:20 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:21:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 In-Reply-To: <970314103717_-1371912381@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2160 Lines: 52 On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > >A Z380 on the other hand has immediate selling power. > > I would like to see your market research figures. On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > [major snip] > > I have never said that the improved processor would not be popular, it just Oh really? Can't remember one month back into the distant past can you? > that it won't be particularly useable until the SRAM card is done. Add to > this that it will be easier to develop things with the SRAM card. So that's a vote for an option(2) SRAM card again. I'm not convinced that you're even sure what you want yourself. > You see the Z380 in a very limited way, as an accelerator for SAM. I see it > as a replacement for SAM, the heart of SAMSON - freed from the bond that > Bruce's hardware would impose on it if your route is followed. We start with > it just acting as a slave processor, that is true, but quite quickly the Z380 > becomes the main processor and the Z80 becomes the slave. Well, an accelerator for the Sam is one of the functions which the Z380 would be able to take on. But, and this I think is the point of your misunderstanding, the Z380 would not be limited to that function. There will be more than 512K external memory, there will be software written specifically for it (using the whole unpaged memory map) it will be able to communicate with the outside world without the Sam getting in the way. I have asked this before, even in a seperate mail, but as usual you dodged the complete issue and just didn't answer the question, so I'll ask again: In what way does this proposed setup limit the Z380? Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 17:28:20 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:22:23 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Comms chips. Message-Id: <19970314172251Z49191-256+31@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 479 Lines: 19 Date: 1997-03-14 17:24 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: BrenchleyR@aol.com >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Subject: Comms chips. > >In a message dated 13/03/97 18:44:59, Bob wrote: > >So. Can anyone think of a use for the chips? Force them legs first in to the soles of your shoes for that _extra_ grip in the snow. Coat in chocolate and sell them as chocolate chips Cover them in ketchup and make chip butties :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 17:35:46 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:31:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 In-Reply-To: <970314103717_-1371912381@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 710 Lines: 22 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 13/03/97 23:27:39, you write: > > [major snip] Aw, that was the most interesting bit of the original mail. Fancy replying to it? Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From imc Fri Mar 14 18:17:58 1997 Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:17:58 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Justin Skists" at Mar 13, 97 07:06:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 239 Lines: 7 On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:06:54 +0000 (GMT), Justin Skists said: > Now, where did I put my NBC suit? I'm expecting a barrel full of flames.. Is this the same NBC suit that cancelled Quantum Leap [Where NBC is a US television company]? imc From imc Fri Mar 14 18:21:47 1997 Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:21:47 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2462E114AC4@eigg.sms.ed.ac.uk> from "Dave Hooper" at Mar 13, 97 02:21:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 586 Lines: 12 On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:21:28 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > A mess, but tough. Huffman compressing is dead nice Possibly, but LZ77 compression is better. Huffman probably isn't really suited to disk images because (1) it won't compress large areas of empty disk particularly well (all it can do is reduce them by a factor of 8, and that's at the slight expense of the compression of the rest of the disk). It will also be hindered by the large areas of potantially random data (like programs and already-compressed stuff), which will hinder the compression of the rest of the disk. imc From imc Fri Mar 14 18:22:52 1997 Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:22:52 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "James R Curry" at Mar 13, 97 09:58:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 498 Lines: 11 On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:58:07 GMT, James R Curry said: > Andrew, if you're going to write this disk archive program. Which I > like the idea of, if you didn't guess from my previous message. Then > write a program that can read Teledisk files and convert them to your > format. That way, the entire FTP site can be converted to use your > program in about 6 seconds. Problem is, no one knows precisely what the format of teledisk is (if I did I might have written a Sun Unix version). imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:30:29 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:05:26 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Collier" at Mar 14, 97 05:21:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 97 Lines: 5 > [major snip as subject turns into the usual > Andrew vs. Bob "who said what" argument.... ] From imc Fri Mar 14 18:31:58 1997 Subject: Re: channel5 retuning - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:31:58 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970312111350_-1539644434@emout11.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Mar 12, 97 11:13:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1230 Lines: 26 On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 11:13:51 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > >Ian Collier writes: > >> On 11 Mar 1997 13:20:59 +0000, Uncle Bulgaria said: > >> > I'm sure I read somewhere that it was intended to be on 36 hence why > >> > videos etc. needed to be retuned 'coz that's the frequency that they > >> > use. I think it was FORMAT years ago ... > >> OK, but FORMAT isn't an official Channel 5 communication and someone > >> probably got it wrong and was passing on bad information. > Thank you Lee, of course FORMAT did not pass on bad information. > UHF TV uses channels from 21 to 69 but, to avoid interferance with I think it > was something like radar, channels 35 to 39 were not to be used for > transmission. So, people line video manufactures opted for channal 36 as the > ideal channel to use for their equipment. > C5 > were authorized to use the 35-39 band in areas where is is necessary (about > 20% of the country the say). > This meand that in those areas and video/computer equipment using chan 36 has > to be adjusted away in one direction or the other. This does not contradict anything I said. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:40:22 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:24:30 GMT Message-Id: <199703141824.SAA16736@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 350 Lines: 17 On Mar 14, 1997 10:37:15, 'BrenchleyR@aol.com' wrote: >In a message dated 13/03/97 20:10:05, you write: > >>Now, where did I put my NBC suit? I'm expecting a barrel full of flames.. > >Bucket of cold water more like :) > >Bob. >(If only I had Bill's money - and SAM...) I didnee know Bill has a SAM :) -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:40:23 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:24:23 GMT Message-Id: <199703141824.SAA16724@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 768 Lines: 29 On Mar 14, 1997 12:44:49, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Andrew Collier wrote: > >> On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Mr P R Walker wrote: >> >> > >> > > How about getting HD drives to work on SAM? Double the disk size. Don't >> > > know about the hardware but the software should be quite easy. >> > > Just an idea. >> > >> > Not a bad one at that. >> >> What the software side will involve, is a complete reorganisation of the >> Sam's directory and file structure. But heck, that needs doing anyway. > >Which would mean somewhere to put it on and I think I can guess where >Samsboss and Bob want the new code..... > I'm saying nothing, just in case I get my head bitten oft :) -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:40:23 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:24:25 GMT Message-Id: <199703141824.SAA16729@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 519 Lines: 24 On Mar 14, 1997 10:43:58, 'Uncle Bulgaria ' wrote: >samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) writes: > >> On Mar 13, 1997 18:01:29, 'Mr P R Walker ' wrote: >> >> >Speed increase, for one. And seeing as speed is what this is all about... >> >> Excuse me, but who said speed is what it is all about? >> > >The bigger, faster, better mentality of society today ;) > > Yes, know what you mean. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:40:24 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:24:41 GMT Message-Id: <199703141824.SAA16745@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 674 Lines: 27 On Mar 14, 1997 10:37:24, 'BrenchleyR@aol.com' wrote: >In a message dated 14/03/97 09:01:45, you write: > >>On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: >> >>> Got it!!!! >>> >>> How about getting HD drives to work on SAM? Double the disk size. Don't >>> know about the hardware but the software should be quite easy. >>> >>> Just an idea. >> >>Bloody hell! I was beginning to think there would never be a good idea >>coming from Samsboss... *wink* > >Anyone go any ideas of how to do it and still keep a 1772 compatible mode? > >Bob. Why? every SAM has one drive, why not make drive two the HD drive? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:40:24 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:24:48 GMT Message-Id: <199703141824.SAA16755@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 611 Lines: 17 On Mar 14, 1997 16:39:55, 'Andrew Collier ' wrote: >What you're saying is that the SRAM card, as you see it, does not need >ever to have any connection to a Z380 or any other processor except the >Sam's internal Z80B. > >What you also say is that the first step needs to be a useful one which >helps drive the project forward, a necessary intermediate step. > >The SRAM card as currently designed does not fulfill that criterion. Well I understood the explanation Bob gave. Are you saying you don't? Because if so ask him for more details. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:40:25 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:24:45 GMT Message-Id: <199703141824.SAA16750@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 508 Lines: 18 On Mar 14, 1997 16:39:55, 'Andrew Collier ' wrote: >> But since when has this list been a voting list? > >But since when have you been in charge around here? This has been a voting >list ever since someone (I think it was James Curry) said: "Let's have a >vote!" Buy you, in your usual bullying way, seem to think that he should obey the result of the vote. Are you going to fund the project if your favoured item wins? I rest my case. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:40:25 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:29:19 GMT Message-Id: <199703141829.SAA16884@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 387 Lines: 15 On Mar 14, 1997 18:05:26, 'ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale)' wrote: >> [major snip as subject turns into the usual >> Andrew vs. Bob "who said what" argument.... ] > > > Mmmm. Look Andy, you seem like a sensible sort of chap from your postings. Can you understand what Andrew is constantly getting his pants twisted about - cos I can't. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From imc Fri Mar 14 18:41:25 1997 Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:41:25 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "James R Curry" at Mar 13, 97 09:58:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 839 Lines: 18 Andrew wrote: >If people think it is worthwhile (so email before Sturday if you think it >will be), over the holiday I should be able to knock up a Sam version of >something a bit like Teledisk, which would compress an unprotected (normal >format) Sam disk into a self-decompacting file; how does that sound? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Rumsoft archiver capable of zipping up an entire normally formatted disk (though I'm stuffed if I can work out how to use it)? If the new program can only deal with normally formatted disks then there doesn't seem to be much of an advantage. The point about teledisk is that it can (allegedly - I've never seen one) store most disk formats and format the destination disk identically. In theory I guess this should be possible using the "read track" and "write track" FDC commands. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 18:52:33 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:49:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Dave To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1819 Lines: 44 You could get the full 2Mb if you wanted, it would just use a very slow operating system - I'm currently trying to find a balance between the two to see if I can squeeze more out of a 780K one ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Fulton (D.A.Fulton@durham.ac.uk) Trevelyan College, University of Durham. http://www.dur.ac.uk/~d60m3c/index.html PGP public key available on request. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Justin Skists wrote: > On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Dave Hooper wrote: > > > > > How about getting HD drives to work on SAM? Double the disk size. Don't > > > > know about the hardware but the software should be quite easy. > > > > Just an idea. > > > > > > Not a bad one at that. > > > > How about getting HD and ED drives to work? Double & quad the disk > > size. Or am I getting ahead of myself? I was just thinking that a > > more flexible DOS is needed to get DD and HD disks to both work, so > > maybe why not build in ED compatibility too? > > Who can actually afford ED disks? The last I heard, they cost about 5uks > each. Especially when you are losing a meg on it.. (2.88meg instead of 4meg) > > And is there any way of squeezing any more data out of the disks aswell? > Like actually having almost 2meg on a HD disk rather than just 1.44 or > 1.6meg? > > -- > ============================================================================= > |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | > |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | > |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | > ============================================================================= > > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 21:31:15 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:27:22 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. - Reply In-Reply-To: <9703141821.AA14516@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2319 Lines: 49 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Ian Collier wrote: > On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:21:28 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > A mess, but tough. Huffman compressing is dead nice > > Possibly, but LZ77 compression is better. Huffman probably isn't really > suited to disk images because (1) it won't compress large areas of empty > disk particularly well (all it can do is reduce them by a factor of 8, and > that's at the slight expense of the compression of the rest of the disk). > It will also be hindered by the large areas of potantially random data (like > programs and already-compressed stuff), which will hinder the compression of > the rest of the disk. I'll probably split the disk into 10240-byte chunks (1 cylinder) and compress each seperately. Data for the tree can't go more than 256 bytes long,and it will usually be less. Hopefully the whole disk will be compressed as much as possible. I will be using MNEMOcompress algorithm, becuase it already exists and I know how it works :) Okay so it isn't quite as good as LZW, but it is better than pure Huffman. Probably. The .PAK file doesn't store a disk as such (so LYRA3 wouldn't work for example,) instead it stores the files from the disk. They must first be loaded into memory all at once, so if there's more than about 450K uncompressed, you've had it. Also it doesn't seem very reliable, many of the files on the ftp seem to be broken. The point about non-standard formats was fair enough, do you (all) think it's worth experimenting with? (Given that I already have routines to read and write normal Sam-Format) The problem is the program would need to actually format the disk rather than just write data to it (and wouldn't work on SimCoupe), but how much PD stuff will come on a protected disk anyway? Email replies quick quick. (Going home tomorrow) Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 21:49:17 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:44:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: <199703141824.SAA16729@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1005 Lines: 26 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >The bigger, faster, better mentality of society today ;) > > Yes, know what you mean. Right, okay, fine. Listen, we're not talking about the 64-bit 200Mhz co-processed Pentium MMX here, we're talking about an (optimistically) 6MHz 8-bit Z80B. If you think that's fast enough for you, then over Easter write, say, a Mandelbrot set generator. For comparison, FRACTINT can do one of about the Sam's resolution within a second or two. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 21:49:17 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:46:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: <199703141824.SAA16750@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1029 Lines: 27 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> But since when has this list been a voting list? > > > >But since when have you been in charge around here? This has been a voting > >list ever since someone (I think it was James Curry) said: "Let's have a > >vote!" > > Buy you, in your usual bullying way, seem to think that he should obey the > result of the vote. Are you going to fund the project if your favoured item > wins? > > I rest my case. I just don't want to see Bob wasting his money. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 21:53:04 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:49:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@blue.csi.cam.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: <199703141824.SAA16755@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 969 Lines: 23 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >What you also say is that the first step needs to be a useful one which > >helps drive the project forward, a necessary intermediate step. > > > >The SRAM card as currently designed does not fulfill that criterion. > > Well I understood the explanation Bob gave. Are you saying you don't? > Because if so ask him for more details. I understood that the explanation Bob gave was a load of haggis. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 23:45:24 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:15:04 GMT Message-Id: <199703142315.XAA11086@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1568 Lines: 39 On Mar 14, 1997 21:49:50, 'Andrew Collier ' wrote: >On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> >What you also say is that the first step needs to be a useful one which >> >helps drive the project forward, a necessary intermediate step. >> > >> >The SRAM card as currently designed does not fulfill that criterion. >> >> Well I understood the explanation Bob gave. Are you saying you don't? >> Because if so ask him for more details. > >I understood that the explanation Bob gave was a load of haggis. > > >Andrew > [translation] Bob does not want to go with Andrew's pet project therefore his explanation must be rubbish. [/translation] One thing is becoming very, VERY, clear. You are never going to agree with Bob, whatever route he takes. He puts forward the argument that we are not /ready/ for the Z380, well on the showing over the last few days we are not /ready/ for anything. If someone comes forward with the money and expertise to build the Z380 then they have the right to dictate /how/ the project to build that should run. If Bob is offering to invest in the SRAM, having explained his logic for going that route, then I think we should do what we can to help. After all it IS something NEW for SAM - a very rare thing these days. There maybe other things that people want. You yourself Andrew have made it quite clear what you want. But can we accept, for now, that what is on offer is better than nothing? Lets at least start work on something. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 23:45:24 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:17:07 GMT Message-Id: <199703142317.XAA11941@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Comms chips. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 674 Lines: 29 On Mar 14, 1997 12:22:23, '"YOUNG Neville, IT Life" ' wrote: >Date: 1997-03-14 17:24 >Priority: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >From: BrenchleyR@aol.com >>To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >>Subject: Comms chips. >> >>In a message dated 13/03/97 18:44:59, Bob wrote: >> >>So. Can anyone think of a use for the chips? > >Force them legs first in to the soles of your shoes for that _extra_ grip in >the snow. >Coat in chocolate and sell them as chocolate chips >Cover them in ketchup and make chip butties > >:) Got a new course of the pills Nev? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 23:45:24 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:19:01 GMT Message-Id: <199703142319.XAA12786@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 367 Lines: 16 On Mar 14, 1997 09:25:22, 'Mr P R Walker ' wrote: > >> >Speed increase, for one. And seeing as speed is what this is all about... >> Excuse me, but who said speed is what it is all about? > >Erm ... well if it isn't, why not just stick with the Sam? > >Paul But its not just a matte of speed. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 14 23:45:25 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:20:04 GMT Message-Id: <199703142320.XAA13208@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 518 Lines: 23 On Mar 14, 1997 09:00:19, 'Justin Skists ' wrote: >On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> Got it!!!! >> >> How about getting HD drives to work on SAM? Double the disk size. Don't >> know about the hardware but the software should be quite easy. >> >> Just an idea. > >Bloody hell! I was beginning to think there would never be a good idea >coming from Samsboss... *wink* > > Oh balls, thats done me reputation in :( :) -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Mar 15 12:09:45 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:06:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Collier X-Sender: asc25@navy.csi.cam.ac.uk To: Sam-users Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 In-Reply-To: <199703151152.LAA00394@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2232 Lines: 63 On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > [fourth translation] Look everbody, I'm having a go at Bob again - in't I > doing good? [/fourth translation] ... > >If nobody thinks a type(1) > >SRAM card is worthwhile, I think most developers are probably more likely > >to concentrate on a type(2) or even a type(3) Z380 card. > > [translation] If I go on shouting my big mouth of for long enough everybody > is bound to agree with me and I will look like I'm really important. > [/translation] ... > >We have heard your opinions on many occassions, but once again you > >directly contradict everything I say giving no reason whatsoever. Do you > >feel no need to explain yourself to us, you consider yourself to be above > >the discussion? > > [translation] You still dont agree with me so I will just rant on anyway to > fill space. [/translation] ... > >You don't see why an improved > >processor would be popular; well, to coin a phrase, if you don't want it > >then you don't have to support it, but I for one can't see any reason why > >people would want to knock it. > > [translation] Even though Bob has never said the Z380 would not prove > popular I thought I better get this last bit in just to end on a good note > [/translation] ... > Why did I do it, call me a glutton for punishment. Sorry, but I feel you > need to be told. Grow up and learn that in comparison to Bob, Nev and a few > others on this list YOU KNOW NOTHING. Stop letting your fat-headed ego-trip > put Sam at risk for the rest of us. > > Oh what the hell - sits back and awaits a flame filled reply - which seems > to be your favourite occupation. :) Isn't he a nice bloke? See you next term. Andrew +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Second Law Of Thermodynamics: | Andrew Collier, 1A NatSci | | If you think things are in a | email asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk | | mess now, just you wait.... | Selwyn College, Cambridge | +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Construction work in progress at http://brain.sel.cam.ac.uk/~asc25 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Mar 15 15:04:53 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:00:47 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Collier" at Mar 15, 97 12:06:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1260 Lines: 31 Since there seems to be a lot being said about the z380 at the moment, I thought it'd be worth saying a bit about the hardware side... basically, it's not at all difficult, and if we could get hold of the datasheets and a sample chip we could have a working board in a few months. But... I don't have the time to work on it. I could certainly come up with some designs though. All we would need to do is make one 64K chunk of the z380's map into a window on the SAM's internal area. Then we would have a simple state machine to slow the z380 down when accessing this window and convert the z380's 32-bit read/writes into 4 8-bit ones. In fact, I think the z380 has a byte-wide addressing option anyway. Either way, what I'm getting at is that it would not be difficult to build such a board, and if there are enough of us wanting one, why not go on and do it? Exactly the same method could be used to attach any 32-bit processor to the SAM - which is what was getting me interested in the MuP21 chip. If there is someone who has the ability and money to build a prototype then I'll gladly work with them on the design - but I can't give practical help just now cos I'm trying to finish my other SAM project. If you want to team up, then e-mail me! Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sat Mar 15 16:57:43 1997 Message-ID: <332AD408.7F8@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:53:28 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Comms chips. References: <199703142317.XAA11941@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 781 Lines: 32 Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > > On Mar 14, 1997 12:22:23, '"YOUNG Neville, IT Life" ' > wrote: > > > >Date: 1997-03-14 17:24 > >Priority: > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >From: BrenchleyR@aol.com > >>To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > >>Subject: Comms chips. > >> > >>In a message dated 13/03/97 18:44:59, Bob wrote: > >> > >>So. Can anyone think of a use for the chips? > > > >Force them legs first in to the soles of your shoes for that _extra_ grip > in > >the snow. > >Coat in chocolate and sell them as chocolate chips > >Cover them in ketchup and make chip butties > > > >:) > > Got a new course of the pills Nev? Flibble dum doptrite (SSRIs are great. even better than coke and LEGAL) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 03:05:57 1997 Subject: So far so good To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 03:02:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <19970316030259Z49163-256+188@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 214 Lines: 9 Well, I can get the SAM IDE interface to PAUSE and UNPAUSE CD's which it's playing now... Anybody want to bet how long it'll be before I can get it playing music to order? :) BTW: - yes, it *is* 2:54am. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 12:31:04 1997 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments References: <199703142315.XAA11086@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Uncle Bulgaria Date: 16 Mar 1997 12:23:10 +0000 In-Reply-To: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com's message of Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:15:04 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.25/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1743 Lines: 44 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) writes: > On Mar 14, 1997 21:49:50, 'Andrew Collier ' wrote: > > >On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > > > >> Well I understood the explanation Bob gave. Are you saying you don't? > >> Because if so ask him for more details. > > > >I understood that the explanation Bob gave was a load of haggis. > > > > > >Andrew > > > [translation] Bob does not want to go with Andrew's pet project therefore > his explanation must be rubbish. [/translation] > Hmm, I can see both sides of the coin here so I'll abstain ... for now! [SNIP] > > If someone comes forward with the money and expertise to build the Z380 > then they have the right to dictate /how/ the project to build that should > run. If Bob is offering to invest in the SRAM, having explained his logic > for going that route, then I think we should do what we can to help. After > all it IS something NEW for SAM - a very rare thing these days. I quite agree, in some ways. If Bob is funding this project then he has the right to say how it should be done. The problem is that Bob has come on this list and asked for our advice, we've said we don't think it's worth it, and he'd be better putting his money towards product x, and then he's blaming us for the fact that what he wanted to do hasn't been done. There is NOTHING stopping Bob going ahead with this project, so please Bob don't blame _us_ for delays ... Lee. -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 14:20:54 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: crimson.mono.org: unc owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:16:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: Sam Users Mailing List Subject: (no subject given) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 691 Lines: 28 Hi all, got this yesterday, sure it will be of some interest to some people :) Tim ....@/ .............................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - Moderator of "The Games Room" & "Ascii Animations" http://www.mono.org/~unc/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 20:19:17 +0100 (MET) From: Maciej Woloszyk To: unc@mono.org Subject: (no subject given) Hi, I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free software. If you want to know more, try http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ Your sincerelly, Mat of ESI, (Maciej J. Woloszyk) From imc Sun Mar 16 14:46:50 1997 Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:46:50 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Collier" at Mar 14, 97 09:27:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 372 Lines: 9 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:27:22 +0000 (GMT), Andrew Collier said: > The .PAK file doesn't store a disk as such (so LYRA3 wouldn't work for > example,) instead it stores the files from the disk. Perhaps someone could explain what's so special about LYRA3 that it requires more than just the files on the disk. I wouldn't have thought there were many examples of this. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 15:12:23 1997 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970316150143.008f2f88@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 15:01:43 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 523 Lines: 16 At 14:46 16/03/97 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:27:22 +0000 (GMT), Andrew Collier said: >> The .PAK file doesn't store a disk as such (so LYRA3 wouldn't work for >> example,) instead it stores the files from the disk. > >Perhaps someone could explain what's so special about LYRA3 that it requires >more than just the files on the disk. I wouldn't have thought there were >many examples of this. It doesn't use files -- just writes direct sector stuff. Pointless really, but there you go. Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 17:28:38 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:17:09 GMT Message-Id: <199703161717.RAA27821@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1540 Lines: 38 On Mar 16, 1997 12:23:10, 'Uncle Bulgaria ' wrote: >I quite agree, in some ways. If Bob is funding this project then he has the >right to say how it should be done. The problem is that Bob has come on this >list and asked for our advice, we've said we don't think it's worth it, and >he'd be better putting his money towards product x, and then he's blaming us >for the fact that what he wanted to do hasn't been done. There is NOTHING >stopping Bob going ahead with this project, so please Bob don't blame _us_ for >delays ... > > >Lee. A very good point Lee. Me thinks part of the problem is that Andrew Collier had just gone out of his way to argue. I don't know if the SRAM card will sell, that is down IMO to what gets done with it, and even more to the way it is put over to the public. Give it to Bob to promote and he will push the benifits. Give it to Andrew and he of course will be very negitive. Looking back over the last few weeks I can see the frustration building up because Andrew Collier just refused to accept that his estimates (of what are involved in doing the Z380 and the new operating system) are just so wide of the mark that I have to question his common sense. I mean, if it took Dr Andy Wright over 6 months to do the first version of the ROM how can Andrew expect this group (even if there was complete agreement and cooperation) to do it in a reasonable time. Am I alone in finding Andrew's time-scales rather unrealistic? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 17:32:44 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:21:32 GMT Message-Id: <199703161721.RAA29055@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: Sam Users Mailing List , unc@mono.org X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 947 Lines: 39 On Mar 16, 1997 14:16:02, 'Tim Paveley ' wrote: >Hi all, > > got this yesterday, sure it will be of some interest to some >people :) > >Tim ....@/ > >..............................................................................@/ > >Unc - Tim Paveley - Moderator of "The Games Room" & "Ascii Animations" > http://www.mono.org/~unc/ > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 20:19:17 +0100 (MET) >From: Maciej Woloszyk >To: unc@mono.org >Subject: (no subject given) > >Hi, > >I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free software. >If you want to know more, try >http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ > >Your sincerelly, > >Mat of ESI, >(Maciej J. Woloszyk) > -- I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 17:38:19 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:43:22 GMT Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <2270CD96A49@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 718 Lines: 26 > >Hi, > > > >I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free > software. > >If you want to know more, try > >http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ > > > >Your sincerelly, > > > >Mat of ESI, > >(Maciej J. Woloszyk) > > > -- > > I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to > FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. > > Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com If you had a look at the above site, there is a few GIF's of the contract drawn up between FRED Publishing and Mat, which shows that FRED only held the copyright up until 1995 - according to the contract, Mat can now do what he wants with E-Tracker - including giving it out freely. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 17:41:39 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:39:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703161721.RAA29055@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1111 Lines: 29 On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free > software. > >If you want to know more, try > >http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ > > I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to > FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. I did think about this before forwarding it on, however being the trusting sort of person I am, I'm happy to believe that he hasn't falsified the copy of the contract he supplies on his web page. About a third of the way down the first page of which is the paragraph "The programmer agrees to relinquish all rights to the copyright and all other rights for the said term. This term will run from 1st Spetember 1992 until 1st August 1995, both dates being inclusive." Which I'm happy to accept as proof. Tim ....@/ .........................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - http://dplinux.sund.ac.uk/~unc/ Staff of the Monochrome BBS - http://www.mono.org/ Owner of a Sam Coupe - http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 17:48:03 1997 Message-ID: <332C3124.6A39@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:43:00 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) References: <199703161721.RAA29055@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 437 Lines: 21 Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free > software. > >If you want to know more, try > >http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ > -- > > I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to > FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. > > Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com Things to do: 1 Go to the site. 2 Read page 1. 3 say sorry. nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 18:16:42 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:04:58 GMT Message-Id: <199703161804.SAA26099@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1310 Lines: 33 On Mar 16, 1997 17:39:56, 'Tim Paveley ' wrote: >On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > >> >I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free >> software. >> >If you want to know more, try >> >http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ >> >> I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to >> FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. > >I did think about this before forwarding it on, however being the >trusting sort of person I am, I'm happy to believe that he hasn't >falsified the copy of the contract he supplies on his web page. > >About a third of the way down the first page of which is the paragraph > >"The programmer agrees to relinquish all rights to the copyright and all >other rights for the said term. This term will run from 1st Spetember >1992 until 1st August 1995, both dates being inclusive." > >Which I'm happy to accept as proof. > > Yep, I did see all that, I did go looky at the page before my last email, but as the program and manual are both marked (c) Fred Publishing I think this sort of announcement should come from Fred. Legally, the copyright is theirs until either they say it isn't or until a court says it isn't. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 18:16:42 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:06:31 GMT Message-Id: <199703161806.SAA26161@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 736 Lines: 32 On Mar 16, 1997 17:43:00, 'Neville Young ' wrote: >Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: >> >Hi, >> > >> >I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free >> software. >> >If you want to know more, try >> >http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ >> -- >> >> I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to >> FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. >> >> Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com > >Things to do: > >1 Go to the site. >2 Read page 1. >3 say sorry. > >nev. 1). Had been to site. 2). Had read front page and all three pages of contract. 3). All I did was offer some advice - please don't hit me :( -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 18:18:06 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:08:20 GMT Message-Id: <199703161808.SAA26174@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1035 Lines: 37 On Mar 16, 1997 17:43:22, '"Gavin Smith" ' wrote: >> >Hi, >> > >> >I want to announc that from today (1996.03.15) ETracker is a free >> software. >> >If you want to know more, try >> >http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/ETracker/ >> > >> >Your sincerelly, >> > >> >Mat of ESI, >> >(Maciej J. Woloszyk) >> > >> -- >> >> I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to >> FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. >> >> Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com > >If you had a look at the above site, there is a few GIF's of the >contract drawn up between FRED Publishing and Mat, which shows that >FRED only held the copyright up until 1995 - according to the >contract, Mat can now do what he wants with E-Tracker - including >giving it out freely. > >Gavin Well ok, there is a contract there, but maybe it is not the latest - I don't know. All I say is to be on the safe side wait until Fred give permission. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 18:26:27 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:30:28 GMT Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <227D5B74392@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 690 Lines: 20 > >If you had a look at the above site, there is a few GIF's of the > >contract drawn up between FRED Publishing and Mat, which shows that > >FRED only held the copyright up until 1995 - according to the > >contract, Mat can now do what he wants with E-Tracker - including > >giving it out freely. > > > >Gavin > > Well ok, there is a contract there, but maybe it is not the latest - I > don't know. Hmm, good point I suppose... > All I say is to be on the safe side wait until Fred give permission. Will do. Haven't much interest in E-Tracker anyway. If I did, I would buy it from FRED Publishing anyway, as I assume a manual would be pretty much necessary. Gavin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 16 22:32:58 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:22:17 GMT Message-Id: <199703162222.WAA02111@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 303 Lines: 13 On Mar 16, 1997 18:30:28, '"Gavin Smith" ' wrote: >Will do. Haven't much interest in E-Tracker anyway. If I did, I would >buy it from FRED Publishing anyway, as I assume a manual would be pretty >much necessary. > >Gavin Very much so? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 08:37:16 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:22:46 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9703170822.AA02355@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 680 Lines: 15 > >b) do you have the time/money/talent to help build the SRAM from scratch > > when a fair amount of the Z380 board is already done? > > SRAM designs are ready may I remind you, all Nev and I asked for originally > was for some people to give them the once over and spot any problems and/or > point out any improvements that could be made. It just occured to me. Before the SRAM go into printing - how about adding a dip-switch to by-pass the paging-logic so that the SRAM-databus (including the addressing- and select lines) are fed directly to the expansion board? This way you have a SRAM card also suitable for any addressing architecture the z380 may provide. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 08:38:27 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:33:24 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9703170833.AA02358@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 488 Lines: 17 > The point about teledisk is that it can (allegedly - I've never seen one) > store most disk formats and format the destination disk identically. That was the idea yes. At the time, there was no other means (to my knowledge) of getting hold of a SAM formated disc. > > In theory I guess this should be possible using the "read track" and "write > track" FDC commands. Hmm...I seem to remember something about a bug in the 'write track' command on the 1772.....? -Frode > > imc > From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 08:38:30 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:35:38 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9703170835.AA02361@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 593 Lines: 18 > On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > > > >The bigger, faster, better mentality of society today ;) > > > > Yes, know what you mean. > > Right, okay, fine. > > Listen, we're not talking about the 64-bit 200Mhz co-processed Pentium MMX > here, we're talking about an (optimistically) 6MHz 8-bit Z80B. > > If you think that's fast enough for you, then over Easter write, say, a > Mandelbrot set generator. For comparison, FRACTINT can do one of about the > Sam's resolution within a second or two. Why not do it yourself. There's on at ftp.nvg.unit.no. ;) -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 09:59:45 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317092553.0092bdb0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:25:53 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: <199703161717.RAA27821@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1270 Lines: 26 >Looking back over the last few weeks I can see the frustration building up >because Andrew Collier just refused to accept that his estimates (of what >are involved in doing the Z380 and the new operating system) are just so >wide of the mark that I have to question his common sense. I mean, if it >took Dr Andy Wright over 6 months to do the first version of the ROM how >can Andrew expect this group (even if there was complete agreement and >cooperation) to do it in a reasonable time. > >Am I alone in finding Andrew's time-scales rather unrealistic? Well, think of that time-scale, and then take into account the time scale for modifying all the ROM and DOS code to fit into the SRAM. They're very similar, considering that both projects in fact work on the same principle. To be honest, I don't think that the existing Z380 design is going to cut it. Neither do I think that the SRAM design will. I am forming more and more of an opinion that the existing SAM design is woefully inadequate, even with an accelerator. The main problem is that lack of DMA on the SAM. For a start, you might have to forget being able to read data from a CD-ROM drive, because the SAM won't be able to keep up. I'll find out more soon -- but that's my initial feeling. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 09:59:45 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317092637.00927ea0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:26:37 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703161721.RAA29055@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 350 Lines: 11 At 05:21 PM 3/16/97 GMT, you wrote: >I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to >FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. Not any more. It reverted to ESI in August 1995 according to the contract, which is prominently displayed on the site. Please check out all the facts before posting, samsboss. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 09:59:45 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317092855.00925720@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:28:55 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703161804.SAA26099@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 803 Lines: 16 At 06:04 PM 3/16/97 GMT, you wrote: [ETRACKER contract] >Yep, I did see all that, I did go looky at the page before my last email, >but as the program and manual are both marked (c) Fred Publishing I think >this sort of announcement should come from Fred. Legally, the copyright is >theirs until either they say it isn't or until a court says it isn't. That's bullshit. As someone who in the past has dealt with copyright every time I've worked for a new magazine, or submitted a new article, that contract is legally binding. The copyright is *NOT* theirs until they say it isn't, or until a court says it isn't. The contract is a publishing agreement. By the terms of the contract, copyright reverts to the author of the work at the end of that period, and then remains theirs for 50 years. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 09:59:45 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317093016.00922850@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:30:16 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. In-Reply-To: <9703170833.AA02358@asmal.edh-net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 309 Lines: 10 At 09:33 AM 3/17/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hmm...I seem to remember something about a bug in the 'write track' command >on the 1772.....? It's a bug in the read track command - certain data patterns cause the sync separator to lose track of the signal, most notably capital S's at the start of a sector. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 09:59:45 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:40:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@nutmeg.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. - Reply In-Reply-To: <9703141821.AA14516@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1560 Lines: 32 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Ian Collier wrote: > On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:21:28 +0000, Dave Hooper said: > > A mess, but tough. Huffman compressing is dead nice > > Possibly, but LZ77 compression is better. Huffman probably isn't really > suited to disk images because (1) it won't compress large areas of empty > disk particularly well (all it can do is reduce them by a factor of 8, and > that's at the slight expense of the compression of the rest of the disk). > It will also be hindered by the large areas of potantially random data (like > programs and already-compressed stuff), which will hinder the compression of > the rest of the disk. You probably thought of this anyway, but: I think we're intending on compressing the entire disk here, aren't we? I know teledisk does a complete copy of every sector. Is it needed on the SAM version? I mean. Say you want to compress a disk to a file and you have a few deleted files. Do we want to compress these 'unused' secters with it? You could just store them as 'empty sector' tags and write it as such when uncompressing. It might make the code slightly more complicated but should reduce the overall file. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 10:44:13 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:36:39 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: (no subject given) (fwd) Message-Id: <19970317103740Z49200-256+317@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 580 Lines: 30 Date: 1997-03-17 10:02 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) >Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > >On Mar 16, 1997 17:43:00, 'Neville Young ' wrote: > >>Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: >>Things to do: >> >>1 Go to the site. >>2 Read page 1. >>3 say sorry. >> >>nev. > >1). Had been to site. >2). Had read front page and all three pages of contract. >3). All I did was offer some advice - please don't hit me :( > why not ? ==== THWACK ==== :) nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 11:11:06 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317110001.00926d30@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:00:01 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: SAM Developer Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 134 Lines: 10 Hi everyone, I've started putting together a web site for SAM development. http://eris.sss.co.uk/samdev/index.htm Enjoy :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 11:11:16 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:04:51 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970317092553.0092bdb0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from "Simon Cooke" at Mar 17, 97 09:25:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 996 Lines: 23 > To be honest, I don't think that the existing Z380 design is going to cut > it. Neither do I think that the SRAM design will. I am forming more and > more of an opinion that the existing SAM design is woefully inadequate, > even with an accelerator. I know exactly what you mean - I keep feeling we're getting into the PC-style of doing things i.e. bodging a design together to make things compatible. If the SAM had been more extendible from the start, things wouldn't have been so bad. But it's not. Personally I would like to see a complete new SAM - it wouldn't be difficult to design hardware to offer mode 3 and 4 compatibility, and I'd be happy to ditch mode 1 and 2. That way we wouldn't be stuck with the 6MHz, 8-bit bottleneck. And we could design it so that additional graphics modes is easy. But that's all pie in the sky, and I'm slightly delirious at moment having rushed off my data management coursework in less time than it takes the SAM to load Prince of Persia.... Andy From imc Mon Mar 17 11:16:46 1997 Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:16:46 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <19970317103740Z49200-256+317@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" at Mar 17, 97 05:36:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 500 Lines: 18 On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:36:39 EST, YOUNG Neville, IT Life said: > From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) > >On Mar 16, 1997 17:43:00, 'Neville Young ' wrote: > >>1 Go to the site. > >>2 Read page 1. > >>3 say sorry. > >1). Had been to site. > >2). Had read front page and all three pages of contract. > >3). All I did was offer some advice - please don't hit me :( > why not ? > ==== THWACK ==== Nev & samsboss in disagreement shocker! Film at 11. imc From imc Mon Mar 17 11:24:49 1997 Subject: Re: Andrew's program idea. - Reply To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:24:49 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Justin Skists" at Mar 17, 97 09:40:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 506 Lines: 12 On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:40:57 +0000 (GMT), Justin Skists said: > I think we're intending on compressing the entire disk here, aren't we? I > know teledisk does a complete copy of every sector. Is it needed on the > SAM version? > I mean. Say you want to compress a disk to a file and you have a few > deleted files. Do we want to compress these 'unused' secters with it? Well this is moving towards just doing the files on the disk (as in Rumsoft archiver), which apparently Andrew doesn't want. imc From imc Mon Mar 17 11:33:11 1997 Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:33:11 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199703161717.RAA27821@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Mar 16, 97 05:17:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 696 Lines: 13 On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:17:09 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: > Andrew Collier just refused to accept that his estimates (of what > are involved in doing the Z380 and the new operating system) are just so > wide of the mark that I have to question his common sense. I mean, if it > took Dr Andy Wright over 6 months to do the first version of the ROM how > can Andrew expect this group (even if there was complete agreement and > cooperation) to do it in a reasonable time. He's not here now, but perhaps he meant that you don't initially need a ROM at all - what if the Z380 were released as an accelerator for existing Sam programs, with a space for a ROM to be added later? imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:16 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317112503.009245f0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:25:03 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970317110001.00926d30@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 419 Lines: 23 At 11:00 AM 3/17/97 +0000, you wrote: >Status: > >Hi everyone, > >I've started putting together a web site for SAM development. > >http://eris.sss.co.uk/samdev/index.htm > >Enjoy :) > >Simon > BTW: the network here's a bit shaky, so connections might be a bit slow. Any ideas for things to stick on there, let me know. BTW: the graphic-image buttons and their associated directories don't currently work. :) Si From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:23 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:57:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@oak.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 930 Lines: 19 On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Andrew M Gale wrote: > Personally I would like to see a complete new SAM - it wouldn't > be difficult to design hardware to offer mode 3 and 4 compatibility, > and I'd be happy to ditch mode 1 and 2. That way we wouldn't be > stuck with the 6MHz, 8-bit bottleneck. And we could > design it so that additional graphics modes is easy. I'd like to keep mode 1 coz i still play speccy games on my SAM and emulating mode 1 in mode 4 would be make it slightly slower... I'm quite happy to get rid of mode 2 though.. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:23 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:59:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@oak.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970317110001.00926d30@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 632 Lines: 18 On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Simon Cooke wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've started putting together a web site for SAM development. > > http://eris.sss.co.uk/samdev/index.htm There goes my idea for a 'database' for all SAM related projects... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:24 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:11:50 GMT+0 Subject: Re: Etrackers X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <2893B3A20AE@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 427 Lines: 16 Lo, > I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to > FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. > The agreement is reciprocle with FRED Publishing aswell. And I'm surprised you didn't get a dig at Andrew Collier in there either ;) > Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com > Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:24 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:16:20 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: James Curry .... In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <11F4630303D@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 660 Lines: 19 > James in his furry and infinite wisdom wrote : > > > Subject: Re: Look, I changed the subject again. > > yeah, and it really screws my threading so don't ... I was trying to avoid a big discussion with the original subject line, as I'm filtering those messages for the vote, that's all. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:25 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:36:17 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-reply-to: <970314100016_414806055@emout18.mail.aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <11F9A9F4EA5@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 525 Lines: 16 > > But since when has this list been a voting list? Since the arguments got so bad, and too such a stalemate, that it was the only way to decide things. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:26 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:42:12 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-reply-to: <9703141817.AA14492@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: from "Justin Skists" at Mar 13, 97 07:06:54 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <11FB45D332D@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 562 Lines: 16 > Is this the same NBC suit that cancelled Quantum Leap [Where NBC is a US > television company]? > "SAM! Ziggy says they'll be no progress in these SRAM vs. Z380 arguments in the next year!" -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:17:26 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:06:18 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments - Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 244 Lines: 13 > Personally I would like to see a complete new SAM - it wouldn't > be difficult to design hardware to offer mode 3 and 4 compatibility, > and I'd be happy to ditch mode 1 and 2. Heaven forfend! How would we all play Sphera?? :) :) :) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:32:50 1997 From: SL Harding Message-Id: <199703171310.NAA10934@harrier.fen.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: VOTE : SRAM or Z380 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:10:40 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970314103717_-1371912381@emout13.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Mar 14, 97 10:37:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 406 Lines: 12 Good afternoon. I have already responded to the 'vote' from my 'sending' account (numbly@bits.bris.ac.uk), but as this account could be considered as an 'annonymous alias' I would like to state my vote again. This time from this, my 'real-name' account. Thus avoiding any possible confusion. I think option 3 is the way to progress. Numbly Belt Shaver/ Stephen L Harding/ The sender of 3... Thanks. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:32:50 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:22:51 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Message-Id: <19970317132308Z49193-27987+7@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1058 Lines: 34 Date: 1997-03-17 13:25 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "James R Curry" >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:42:12 GMT >Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments > >> Is this the same NBC suit that cancelled Quantum Leap YWhere NBC is a US >> television company?? >> >"SAM] Ziggy says they'll be no progress in these SRAM vs. Z380 >arguments in the next year]" "But, what if I'm *not* *here* to resolve the arguments about the hardware, Al? Ask Ziggy what happens if I get *everybody* on the sam users list to agree. " "Sorry Sam. Ziggy says that if that happens President Clinton will *accidentilly* launch a full nuclear strike against the former Soviet Union resulting the the total destruction of all life on the planet." "But are you sure that won't happen any way. Even if neither the SRAM or Z380 boards are produced?" "Absolutly, Sam. Ziggy is *never* wrong about things like this." " I think I'll give my way a try Al" "Ok SAM you're the BOSS" From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:32:55 1997 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: James Curry .... References: <11F4630303D@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware From: Uncle Bulgaria Date: 17 Mar 1997 13:22:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: "James R Curry"'s message of Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:16:20 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.25/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 642 Lines: 19 "James R Curry" writes: > > James in his furry and infinite wisdom wrote : > > > > > Subject: Re: Look, I changed the subject again. > > > > yeah, and it really screws my threading so don't ... > > I was trying to avoid a big discussion with the original subject > line, as I'm filtering those messages for the vote, that's all. Don't worry I was only joking ;) Lee. -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:44:27 1997 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199703171335.NAA31504@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: MAOS To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no (sam users) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:35:47 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2143 Lines: 52 >> What is the point in the low priority pages? Surely the hassels with >> processes having to find out if they still own them would outweigh the >> advantages? > > Does it? You have to remember that this chech has to be performed for > EACH other memory access, effectively doubling the memory access of any > given process (which has 'lowpri' memory). Remember, you can never > know that a different process has grabed controll of the CPU and > done some memory gymnastics. ! Sounds like a very 'PC' solution. This 'type' of memory will be used mainly in the GUI, where different applications are to rotate and do their jobs in a 'round-robin' sort of ordering. Simply check at the beginning of an applications turn if it still controls the page. In that turn it could use the page as much as it desired. A 1 cycle delay could be installed between a request for the page and its reuse. { virtual memory stuff } >> Using virtual memory you could end up with the situation where, say, a >> database creates a new view of a database to speed up access time and >> ends up reading it off the disc all of the time! >> If we implement such memory I don't think we should try and hide the >> nature of the memory from the application in the way other machines >> strive to. It's nature may make a difference to the way the >> applications go about doing things. > >Why should it. It's the OS (or MAOS as you call it :) I used the term MAOS to refer to the 'Memory Management OS module' not the whole operating system. > job to control the memory. If the application should treat different > 'types' of memory differently, we'll end up with dosens of > implementatios of it. > No simple == safe! The nature of the memory a program is on or in reciept of should be made known to the program if it wants to know. All I think we need is a single bit to state whether the memory is 'real' or virtual memory. The program could request this bit by calling some MAOS function and use it to ensure it doesn't do anything stupid such as the example above. It is not a radical difference in implementation, just a more realistic ideal. Numbly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 13:44:28 1997 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199703171338.NAA31537@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Trivia To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no (sam users) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:38:39 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 368 Lines: 13 >> I see no point in bragging, as I read this question to request, >> So I intend to dodge it again. > > No, what I wanted to know was how much experience you have programming > things at this low a level -- ie opertating system design and hardware > interfacing. > > Simon I know. Maybe that is what I meant by the phrase 'I intend to dodge (the question)' Numb. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 14:48:43 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:38:44 -0500 (EST) From: Gouranga@aol.com Message-ID: <970317093840_720941217@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 697 Lines: 16 > If you had a look at the above site, there is a few GIF's of the > contract drawn up between FRED Publishing and Mat, which shows that > FRED only held the copyright up until 1995 - according to the > contract, Mat can now do what he wants with E-Tracker - including > giving it out freely. While it's highly entertaining to read about everyone's opinion on where the ETracker copyright lies, it strikes me as *slightly* stupid that no-one has bothered asking the person who published it (ie. me) what the situation is. Still, ETracker, complete with manual, is available from FRED Publishing, at the new Leics address. Mail fredpub@aol.com for mail details. Have a nice day. CM From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 14:48:43 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:50:24 GMT Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <23C2AEA5A6A@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 273 Lines: 6 > While it's highly entertaining to read about everyone's opinion on where the > ETracker copyright lies, it strikes me as *slightly* stupid that no-one has > bothered asking the person who published it (ie. me) what the situation is. > CM Erm. So what is the situation? From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 15:11:19 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:58:10 GMT Message-Id: <199703171458.OAA01529@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 521 Lines: 20 On Mar 17, 1997 09:26:37, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 05:21 PM 3/16/97 GMT, you wrote: >>I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to >>FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. > >Not any more. It reverted to ESI in August 1995 according to the contract, >which is prominently displayed on the site. > >Please check out all the facts before posting, samsboss. > >Simon I did. And my comments still stand. > -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 15:29:55 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:14:54 GMT+0 Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <28C57D76EA7@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1161 Lines: 36 > On Mar 17, 1997 09:26:37, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: > > > >At 05:21 PM 3/16/97 GMT, you wrote: > >>I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to > >>FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. > > > >Not any more. It reverted to ESI in August 1995 according to the contract, > > >which is prominently displayed on the site. > > > >Please check out all the facts before posting, samsboss. > > > >Simon > > I did. And my comments still stand. And you call Andrew argumentative? :) But seriously, if Etracker proves to be PD now surely we can persuade some other software authors to part with their rights and start to put together a decent SAM bundle? ETracker is an excellent piece of software and although most people who want it will have already bought it, there might still be a few people who would benefit from owning it. Perhaps the best thing would be for Colin to put it out with an issue of Fred? > > > -- > > Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com > Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 15:37:06 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317153426.00922980@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:34:26 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199703171458.OAA01529@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 771 Lines: 30 At 02:58 PM 3/17/97 GMT, samsboss wrote: >Status: RO > >On Mar 17, 1997 09:26:37, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: > > >>At 05:21 PM 3/16/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>I don't think anybody should risk copying ETracker until they speak to >>>FRED, after all they are the ones with the copyright. >> >>Not any more. It reverted to ESI in August 1995 according to the contract, > >>which is prominently displayed on the site. >> >>Please check out all the facts before posting, samsboss. >> >>Simon > >I did. And my comments still stand. TSK. He writes from work, and then complains that he can't reveal his identity in case they find out. You sure they're not using packet sniffers, logging, or a PC-anywhere style monitoring facility? :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 15:56:35 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:48:25 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: The Curse of the Show Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 378 Lines: 14 It strikes again. I don't believe this, in what must be the cruelest twist of fate in the world I will be trapped in a car leaving Leeds on the day of the Gloucester show, not unlike last time when I was trapped in a car leaving Leeds on the day of the NSSS show. BASTARD!!! But you never know, I may appear in the end (and *this* time I will wear a little badge...) Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:17:38 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:57:28 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9703171557.AA02996@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 505 Lines: 27 > Hi everyone, > > I've started putting together a web site for SAM development. > > http://eris.sss.co.uk/samdev/index.htm MEMBERS This page contains contact information for all the members of the SAM Coupe Development Project. From here you can send e-mail to project members, or visit their personal home pages. Alphabetical listing, by last name: Cooke, Simon Simon Cooke Project Position: Administrator Projects involved in: All Ever heard about democracy? ;) -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:17:38 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317160358.00924da0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:03:58 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project In-Reply-To: <9703171557.AA02996@asmal.edh-net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 453 Lines: 19 At 04:57 PM 3/17/97 +0100, you wrote: >Simon Cooke > > Project Position: Administrator > Projects involved in: All > > >Ever heard about democracy? ;) In what way? Don't you mean delegating though? :) I put myself in as Administrator, namely because that way I can keep track of everything that's going on and keep the site updated accordingly. As for the projects involved in, well... you know me, I'll turn my hand to anything :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:17:39 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:11:47 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19970317153426.00922980@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <199703171458.OAA01529@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <123324E6965@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 662 Lines: 19 > TSK. He writes from work, and then complains that he can't reveal his > identity in case they find out. > > You sure they're not using packet sniffers, logging, or a PC-anywhere style > monitoring facility? 2 Messages from Samsboss this week came through marked as Bad Messages. Very odd. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:17:40 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:13:20 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The Curse of the Show In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <12338ED450E@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 611 Lines: 18 > But you never know, I may appear in the end (and *this* time I will wear a little > badge...) Hey, Samsboss.. Why don't your wear a little badge, as well? I'm JOKING! I'm not trying to start the 'Who is samsboss' argument off again. :) -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:32:13 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:31:22 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19970317160358.00924da0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <9703171557.AA02996@asmal.edh-net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <123864E46F2@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 594 Lines: 18 > As for the projects involved in, well... you know me, I'll turn my hand to > anything :) Really? I've got an idea for a little project you could try and finish. It's called "Statues of Ice".. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:42:29 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:35:10 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: (no subject given) (fwd) Message-Id: <19970317163531Z49160-27987+33@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 632 Lines: 23 Date: 1997-03-17 16:37 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "James R Curry" >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:11:47 GMT >Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) > >> TSK. He writes from work, and then complains that he can't reveal his >> identity in case they find out. >> >> You sure they're not using packet sniffers, logging, or a PC-anywhere style >> monitoring facility? > >2 Messages from Samsboss this week came through marked as Bad >Messages. Very odd. I'm surprised you didn't write *all* his messages are bad :)) nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:53:54 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317164641.009247e0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:46:41 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project In-Reply-To: <123864E46F2@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> References: <3.0.1.32.19970317160358.00924da0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> <9703171557.AA02996@asmal.edh-net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 419 Lines: 19 At 04:31 PM 3/17/97 GMT, you wrote: >Status: > > >> As for the projects involved in, well... you know me, I'll turn my hand to >> anything :) > >Really? I've got an idea for a little project you could try and >finish. It's called "Statues of Ice".. > > heh. Feck off. :) As I've said before, I'm only finishing that when I've done all the serious stuff that I'm working on :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:53:55 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:55:29 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) In-reply-to: <19970317163531Z49160-27987+33@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <123ECC4793A@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 662 Lines: 20 > >2 Messages from Samsboss this week came through marked as Bad > >Messages. Very odd. > > I'm surprised you didn't write *all* his messages are bad :)) I've already exceeded my "Flames, stupid comments and irrelevance" quota for this term. ;) I exceeded it on about day 2 as I remember. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 16:59:56 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:02:35 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19970317164641.009247e0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <123864E46F2@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <1240B573B4F@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 602 Lines: 21 > heh. Feck off. :) > > As I've said before, I'm only finishing that when I've done all the serious > stuff that I'm working on :) > > Simon I know, I just like joking you about it, that's all. ;) BTW is BOAI 3 almost ready yet? -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 17 17:12:58 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970317170733.009227d0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:07:33 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAM Developer Project In-Reply-To: <1240B573B4F@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> References: <3.0.1.32.19970317164641.009247e0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> <123864E46F2@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 417 Lines: 20 At 05:02 PM 3/17/97 GMT, you wrote: >Status: > > >> heh. Feck off. :) >> >> As I've said before, I'm only finishing that when I've done all the serious >> stuff that I'm working on :) >> >> Simon > >I know, I just like joking you about it, that's all. ;) > >BTW is BOAI 3 almost ready yet? Nearly. Sorry for the delay. Hampsters on the line caused it, with multiple point failure, and spilled coffee. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 13:28:58 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:18:26 GMT+0 Subject: TEST MAILING: PLEASE IGNORE X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <2A257C44921@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 171 Lines: 6 This is just a test mailing - please ignore it. Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 13:28:58 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:21:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@pine.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-Reply-To: <9703141817.AA14492@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 740 Lines: 17 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Ian Collier wrote: > On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:06:54 +0000 (GMT), Justin Skists said: > > Now, where did I put my NBC suit? I'm expecting a barrel full of flames.. > > Is this the same NBC suit that cancelled Quantum Leap [Where NBC is a US > television company]? Nah.. NBC as in Nuclear/Biological/Chemical warfare suit.. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 14:32:37 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:47 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970318091747_-1270910270@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: (no subject given) (fwd) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1895 Lines: 39 In a message dated 17/03/97 09:52:04, you write: >At 06:04 PM 3/16/97 GMT, you wrote: >[ETRACKER contract] >>Yep, I did see all that, I did go looky at the page before my last email, >>but as the program and manual are both marked (c) Fred Publishing I think >>this sort of announcement should come from Fred. Legally, the copyright is >>theirs until either they say it isn't or until a court says it isn't. > >That's bullshit. As someone who in the past has dealt with copyright every >time I've worked for a new magazine, or submitted a new article, that >contract is legally binding. The copyright is *NOT* theirs until they say >it isn't, or until a court says it isn't. The contract is a publishing >agreement. By the terms of the contract, copyright reverts to the author of >the work at the end of that period, and then remains theirs for 50 years. > >Simon Sorry Simon, but the real world does not agree with you. Having had experiance of software contracts since 1981 I can state, from bitter experiance, that the courts do not allways take the /letter/ of the contract into account. If something (book, software, makes no difference) is published, with a copyright symbol, date, and the name of a person/company then THEY own the copyright in law. Someone may turn round and use a pre-existing contract to back up a claim to be able to do what they want with a publication, but it is most certainly not as clear cut as you claim. In this particular case I'm inclined to agree with Samsboss in as far as saying it is down to FRED to make any statement regarding this matter. Still, as someone else said, if people were interested they would already have purchased a copy so the whole thing is a little pointless. One thing I would say though, I would have no trust in anyone who thinks it a good idea to publish in image for a contract in the way that this programmer has. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 14:32:38 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:52 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970318091751_-969200702@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 99 Lines: 7 In a message dated 17/03/97 13:35:04, you write: >"Ok SAM you're the BOSS" Oh no he's not.... From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 14:32:39 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:53 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970318091752_46320322@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: The Curse of the Show Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 551 Lines: 23 In a message dated 17/03/97 15:49:26, you write: >It strikes again. > >I don't believe this, in what must be the cruelest twist of fate in the world >I will >be trapped in a car leaving Leeds on the day of the Gloucester show, not >unlike last >time when I was trapped in a car leaving Leeds on the day of the NSSS show. > >BASTARD!!! > >But you never know, I may appear in the end (and *this* time I will wear a >little >badge...) > >Dan. Would the safe idea be not to get into the car in the first place? Then you would never be trapped :) Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 14:32:40 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:50 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970318091748_-1136698942@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1692 Lines: 40 In a message dated 17/03/97 11:11:57, you write: >I know exactly what you mean - I keep feeling we're getting >into the PC-style of doing things i.e. bodging a design >together to make things compatible. If the SAM had been >more extendible from the start, things wouldn't have been so bad. >But it's not. Rubbish man! The SAM is as expandible as we want to make it. DMA with the internal system may not be possible, and there are some other limits, but what we do on the back is up to us. Actually, this /bodging/ you refer to is exactly why I have stood against (in part) the Z380 ideas that Andrew Collier has so constantly argued. I don't see the Z380 as an accelerator, I see it as the heart of a new computer that is developed by it being attached to the existing SAM for the time being. The new machine with have the spirit of SAM, it will have many compatible features, but it will be something new. > >Personally I would like to see a complete new SAM - it wouldn't >be difficult to design hardware to offer mode 3 and 4 compatibility, >and I'd be happy to ditch mode 1 and 2. That way we wouldn't be >stuck with the 6MHz, 8-bit bottleneck. And we could >design it so that additional graphics modes is easy. The new SAM need not have any screen modes from the SAM, that should be the job of the SAM card that plugs into it (with the Z80 and an ASIC).. > >But that's all pie in the sky, and I'm slightly delirious >at moment having rushed off my data management coursework in >less time than it takes the SAM to load Prince of Persia.... Well done, now can you spare a couple of hours to run the country while the political bods are playing with the election :) > >Andy Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 14:32:40 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:55 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970318091750_-1036340670@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 852 Lines: 20 In a message dated 17/03/97 13:34:55, you write: >On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:17:09 GMT, Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com said: >> Andrew Collier just refused to accept that his estimates (of what >> are involved in doing the Z380 and the new operating system) are just so >> wide of the mark that I have to question his common sense. I mean, if it >> took Dr Andy Wright over 6 months to do the first version of the ROM how >> can Andrew expect this group (even if there was complete agreement and >> cooperation) to do it in a reasonable time. > >He's not here now, but perhaps he meant that you don't initially need a ROM >at all - what if the Z380 were released as an accelerator for existing Sam >programs, with a space for a ROM to be added later? > >imc Exactly what we don't want - a faster SAM with all its current bugs and limitations. Bob. From imc Tue Mar 18 14:48:18 1997 Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:48:19 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970318091750_-1036340670@emout14.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Mar 18, 97 09:17:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 706 Lines: 15 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:55 -0500 (EST), BrenchleyR@aol.com said: > >He's not here now, but perhaps he meant that you don't initially need a ROM > >at all - what if the Z380 were released as an accelerator for existing Sam > >programs, with a space for a ROM to be added later? > Exactly what we don't want - a faster SAM with all its current bugs and > limitations. Ah, but it should be expandable so that, although at the moment it has all its current bugs and limitations, in 6-12 months it can be given a new ROM and operating system to form the heart of the new computer. But a card which makes your current Sam faster is probably the thing which would make most people sit up and go "wow". imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 15:16:59 1997 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199703181508.PAA18122@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: A Question of Speed To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no (sam users) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:08:31 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 276 Lines: 9 Just a quick question. I have not kept up to date with the increasingly accurate measurement of the speed of the Z80 in our current SAMs. Where can I go about finding out the most 'up to date' timings of the various Z80 instructions? Which issues of which magazines? Numb. From imc Tue Mar 18 15:20:18 1997 Subject: Re: A Question of Speed To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:20:18 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199703181508.PAA18122@BITS.bris.ac.uk> from "Stephen Harding" at Mar 18, 97 03:08:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 365 Lines: 9 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:08:31 +0000 (GMT), Stephen Harding said: > Where can I go about finding out the most 'up to date' timings of the > various Z80 instructions? Which issues of which magazines? I believe "Based on an Idea" issue 2 contains a pretty accurate list. Or I could attempt to dig up my program for displaying the precise time of an instruction. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 15:25:40 1997 Subject: Re: A Question of Speed To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:16:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199703181508.PAA18122@BITS.bris.ac.uk> from "Stephen Harding" at Mar 18, 97 03:08:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <19970318151721Z49184-27987+137@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 509 Lines: 23 > > Just a quick question. > > I have not kept up to date with the increasingly accurate measurement of > the speed of the Z80 in our current SAMs. > > Where can I go about finding out the most 'up to date' timings of the > various Z80 instructions? Which issues of which magazines? > > Numb. Magazine-wise, the best place is issue 2 of based-on-an-idea. BOAI, 38 Squires Lane, Tyldesley, Manchester, M29 8JF Single issues cost 2.00 UKP each, 4-issue subs cost 6.00 UKP. Cheques to M.Rookyard. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 17:07:52 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:04:54 GMT Subject: Re: A Question of Speed X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <256695C2F83@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 299 Lines: 14 > Magazine-wise, the best place is issue 2 of based-on-an-idea. > > BOAI, > 38 Squires Lane, > Tyldesley, > Manchester, > M29 8JF > > Single issues cost 2.00 UKP each, 4-issue subs cost 6.00 UKP. Cheques to > M.Rookyard. > > Simon And a 4-issue sub will last you approximately 3 years *grins* From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 17:07:53 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:04:11 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970318120359_-1706073299@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Still having mail problems. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 449 Lines: 12 Sorry everyone, but AOL is still giving me problems with mail. I'm getting some old messages coming down as new, some messages do not have a body, and I'm sure some messages are vanishing in their entirity. Have now arranged with AOL for them to recover some on the files so I can download later. If anyone has been trying to get me urgent then use the FormatPub@aol.com address as there seems to be not problem with that (much less mail?) Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 18 18:16:29 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:16:28 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SRAM vs. Z380 arguments In-reply-to: <9703181448.AA19476@client28.comlab.ox.ac.uk> References: <970318091750_-1036340670@emout14.mail.aol.com> from "BrenchleyR@aol.com" at Mar 18, 97 09:17:55 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <13D47140A81@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 723 Lines: 18 > Ah, but it should be expandable so that, although at the moment it has all > its current bugs and limitations, in 6-12 months it can be given a new ROM > and operating system to form the heart of the new computer. But a card > which makes your current Sam faster is probably the thing which would make > most people sit up and go "wow". I agree - 100% -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 11:09:45 1997 From: Stephen Harding Message-Id: <199703191108.LAA31177@BITS.bris.ac.uk> Subject: Re: A Question of Speed To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no (sam users) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:08:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 394 Lines: 19 >> Where can I go about finding out the most 'up to date' timings of the >> various Z80 instructions? Which issues of which magazines? >> >> Numb. SC> Magazine-wise, the best place is issue 2 of based-on-an-idea. [SNIP] SC> Simon [PINS] (?) IC> I believe "Based on an Idea" issue 2 contains a pretty accurate list. [SNIP] IC> imc Thanks. M. Rookyard is now 2 quid richer. Numbly. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 14:34:05 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:33:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: There's still time to vote.. Just! X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <1518EDA6221@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 434 Lines: 15 There's still time to vote! The voting is over at 3pm.. VOTE NOW! -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 14:48:12 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:36:11 GMT+0 Subject: Re: There's still time to vote.. Just! X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <2BBB4B54F8D@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 686 Lines: 23 > There's still time to vote! > > The voting is over at 3pm.. I think the result is obvious. But will it make any difference to what project is worked upon? > > VOTE NOW! > -- > James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk > > "When Marge first told me she was going to the police > academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that > movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and > disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." > - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. > > The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. > Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 14:55:48 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:42:37 GMT+0 Subject: NOT SAM RELATED: Election X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <2BBCA971563@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1154 Lines: 43 Just been asked to conduct a small opinion poll of people so I decided to use the list (hope nobody minds) to get a snapshot of the British public outlook on things. If you would like to take part, please reply to me personally at my mailing address with the subheading of ELECTION and I'd be most grateful. It's to do with politics, but is only a few Q's long so please persevere if you can. All information is confidential and you don;t have to answer all of the questions if you so wish QUESTIONS --------- How old are you? 1) Who will you vote for at the General Election? 2) Would you prefer Britain to be in the EC and take an active role in it's progress towards a United States of Europe, or would you prefer our onloy relations to be that of trade? 3) What is the single most important issue for you in politics? 4) Would you like to see power in Britain devoled so that, for example, Scotland could rule itself or would you prefer the United Kingdom to stay united? Thanks a lot for your time. Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 14:55:49 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:57:14 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: There's still time to vote.. Just! In-reply-to: <2BBB4B54F8D@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <151F5BC68D9@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 646 Lines: 19 > I think the result is obvious. But will it make any difference to > what project is worked upon? Are you sure.. Remember, not everyone voted via the list.. ;) Besides, thinking the result is obvious is no reason not to vote. Will it have any effect? We can only hope.. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 15:21:43 1997 From: Johnna Teare Organization: University of Central Lancashire To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:58:45 GMT+0 Subject: Re: There's still time to vote.. Just! X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-ID: <2BC0AC97131@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 984 Lines: 30 > > > I think the result is obvious. But will it make any difference to > > what project is worked upon? > > Are you sure.. Remember, not everyone voted via the list.. ;) > > Besides, thinking the result is obvious is no reason not to vote. I think I've already voted...can't remember...anyway, if I haven't I wanted the Z380 thingy so tally another one on there. If I'm on time... > > Will it have any effect? We can only hope.. **Johnna crosses fingers...** > -- > James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk > > "When Marge first told me she was going to the police > academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that > movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and > disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." > - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. > > The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. > Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 15:21:43 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:16:08 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: VOTING RESULTS! In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <152461C7701@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 933 Lines: 32 Well, the voting is now closed, and the results have been counted.. 2) A Sam-based (SRAM " ) board but including future Z380 expandability -- 12.5% 3) A Z380 card, plugging into Sam, with its own onboard memory -- 87.5% If everyone listening to this? Now, it seems to be, that this then is how we should proceed. A couple of points.. 1. Not as many people voted as I expected, doesn't everyone care? 2. Bob didn't vote - draw your own conclusions from this. Well, it's Z380 then. Pity that this probably won't stop the arguments. Sigh. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 16:31:57 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:29:36 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: There's still time to vote.. Just! In-reply-to: <2BC0AC97131@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <1527F710CB8@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 545 Lines: 16 > I think I've already voted...can't remember...anyway, if I haven't I > wanted the Z380 thingy so tally another one on there. If I'm on > time... You had already voted, yes. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 17:54:32 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:43:20 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Dan's Sam Web Page Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 78 Lines: 7 Creative abuse only please :) http://www.hipp.demon.co.uk/dan/coupe/ Dan. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 17:54:32 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: There's still time to vote.. Just! To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:14:44 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <2BC0AC97131@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> from "Johnna Teare" at Mar 19, 97 02:58:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1047 Lines: 31 > > > > > > I think the result is obvious. But will it make any difference to > > > what project is worked upon? > > > > Are you sure.. Remember, not everyone voted via the list.. ;) > > > > Besides, thinking the result is obvious is no reason not to vote. > > I think I've already voted...can't remember...anyway, if I haven't I > wanted the Z380 thingy so tally another one on there. If I'm on > time... > > > > Will it have any effect? We can only hope.. > > **Johnna crosses fingers...** > > -- > > James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk > > > > "When Marge first told me she was going to the police > > academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that > > movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and > > disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." > > - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. > > > > The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. > > > > Johnna Pig Teare (JohnnaPig@deathsdoor.com) > JohnnaPig OnLine (www.yi.com/home/TeareJohnna) > "They call me Mad The Swine." From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 17:54:32 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:15:18 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <152461C7701@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> from "James R Curry" at Mar 19, 97 03:16:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 140 Lines: 6 > 2) A Sam-based (SRAM " ) board but including future Z380 > expandability -- 12.5% > I take it this means only 8 people voted :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 19 18:20:58 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:06:34 GMT Message-Id: <199703191806.SAA02860@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 768 Lines: 30 On Mar 19, 1997 15:16:08, '"James R Curry" ' wrote: >Well, the voting is now closed, and the results have been counted.. > > >2) A Sam-based (SRAM " ) board but including future Z380 >expandability -- 12.5% > >3) A Z380 card, plugging into Sam, with its own onboard >memory -- 87.5% > >If everyone listening to this? Now, it seems to be, that this then >is how we should proceed. > >A couple of points.. > >1. Not as many people voted as I expected, doesn't everyone care? > >2. Bob didn't vote - draw your own conclusions from this. > >Well, it's Z380 then. > >Pity that this probably won't stop the arguments. Sigh. > So, the big question is: who is going to pay for it? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 09:57:10 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 04:47:11 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970320044710_545160939@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Z380 MANUAL. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 2003 Lines: 37 Ok folks, listen up please. First, the SRAM card is currently being looked at again by Nev in view of the comments on this list about Flash ROM. Will have an answer on this in about a weeks time. The SRAM project MUST still go ahead because, dispite what some people may think, and dispite the the fact that people are keen to get on with the excitement of the Z380. I will state one last time the simple fact that the SRAM card HAS to come first. Right. Finally go an answer from Zilog last night. The do not have enough copies of the Z380 Prliminary Manual in the UK to give me the number of copies that I asked for. So, while giving 'hints' that there may be a new version later this year. They have given me permission to photocopy the main part of the manual (112 pages) provided I give them a list of who gets a copy. I say main part because there is a section at the back which they print in all their manuals that has no relivence to the Z380. So. I intend to have 30 copies done next week. I know some of you already registered an interest but what I now need is an email, send to FormatPub@aol.com (so it wont get mixed with everything else in this mailbox) Giving name and Address. I'm limiting it to 30 copies at the moment and it will be first come first served. I will make just one exception to that, I will reserve a copy for Andrew Collier because if I didn't he would simply complain that I organized this while he was away just to get even (I'm tempted, I must admit but I wont). Once the manual is in peoples hands I think it will become clear the amount of work involved. My thinking at the moment is that we can have some chats at the Gloucester show on the 19th, but that it is really going to need a good brain-storming session at some point in the early summer. I feel that one of the first things that has to be worked out is what bus structure we are going to adopt. Still, that is for the future. For now I will await your requests for the photocopy manual. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 11:36:01 1997 Message-Id: <199703201129.MAA26425@mailserv.caiw.nl> From: Robert van der Veeke To: Sam users Subject: Who is DR. Herbert R.J. Grosch? Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 12:28:46 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 209 Lines: 7 grin Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [rjvveeke@caiw.nl] [http://www.caiw.nl/~rjvveeke/hentai2.htm] Hentai Oranda -- We have been brought here by desire -- Pinhead in Hellbound (hellraiser II) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 12:06:24 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970320113408.00925d90@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:34:08 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! In-Reply-To: <199703191806.SAA02860@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 246 Lines: 11 At 06:06 PM 3/19/97 GMT, you wrote: > >So, the big question is: who is going to pay for it? Why does that matter to *you* Samsboss? As I've said before, people are willing to pay for it so that they can do it just for the hell of it. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 13:35:54 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:37:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! In-reply-to: References: <152461C7701@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> from "James R Curry" at Mar 19, 97 03:16:08 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <168A0C64FDF@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 585 Lines: 17 > > 2) A Sam-based (SRAM " ) board but including future Z380 > > expandability -- 12.5% > > > > I take it this means only 8 people voted :) > Yep, but it still seems to indicate what people want, doesn't it? -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 13:48:45 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:27:04 GMT Message-Id: <199703201327.NAA02615@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1031 Lines: 35 On Mar 20, 1997 11:34:08, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 06:06 PM 3/19/97 GMT, you wrote: >> >>So, the big question is: who is going to pay for it? > >Why does that matter to *you* Samsboss? > >As I've said before, people are willing to pay for it so that they can do >it just for the hell of it. > >Simon > Oh sorry I spoke.... No, but really, who here is prepared to put up money for the development of the Z380 card that people have voted for? Me? Well, that would depend on who had resposibility for the project and who was involved. I'm not rich enough to throw money away so it would have to be a someone I had confidence in. Remember, I was not allowed to vote. But I can vote with the best voting slips available - those with the Queens head on them. So come on, convince me I should invest in the Z380 - cos so far the only things that have been put forward is Speed and Excitement. Speed we can do with, maybe. Excitement - for who? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 13:48:45 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:28:30 GMT Message-Id: <199703201328.NAA02646@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 453 Lines: 16 On Mar 20, 1997 13:37:13, '"James R Curry" ' wrote: >> > 2) A Sam-based (SRAM " ) board but including future Z380 >> > expandability -- 12.5% >> > >> >> I take it this means only 8 people voted :) >> >Yep, but it still seems to indicate what people want, doesn't it? But does it. Without costs having been mentioned once, I cant see that people were voting with the full facts. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 13:48:45 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:48:08 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Off home.. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <168CF524C40@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 735 Lines: 23 Well, I'm off home for a while.. 4 weeks to be exact, so I'm unsubscribing until then.. Keep up the SamSon project :) Anyone wishing to reach me in this time can try JamesCurry@Hotmail.com I may (but unlikely) be able to answer to this for the first 2 weeks. For the second 2 I should be able to without problems. See you soon. Looking forward to Gloucester. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 13:48:55 1997 Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:40:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <199703201327.NAA02615@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Mar 20, 97 01:27:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <19970320134119Z49161-27987+356@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1141 Lines: 31 > >As I've said before, people are willing to pay for it so that they can do > >it just for the hell of it. > > > >Simon > > > > Oh sorry I spoke.... > > No, but really, who here is prepared to put up money for the development of > the Z380 card that people have voted for? Well, Martin Rookyard and I have already put more than 200 UKP into the development of it. > Me? Well, that would depend on who had resposibility for the project and > who was involved. I'm not rich enough to throw money away so it would have > to be a someone I had confidence in. > > Remember, I was not allowed to vote. But I can vote with the best voting > slips available - those with the Queens head on them. > > So come on, convince me I should invest in the Z380 - cos so far the only > things that have been put forward is Speed and Excitement. Speed we can do > with, maybe. Excitement - for who? I'll leave that up to other people to do -- I, for one, am a little biased. Actually, I think we need an entire new architecture, and am getting more than a little disillusioned with the SAM at the moment. But that's just me. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 14:09:46 1997 From: James R Curry Organization: De Montfort University To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:56:33 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! In-reply-to: <199703201328.NAA02646@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.50) Message-ID: <168F2DC4D01@sahara.cms.dmu.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 651 Lines: 18 > >Yep, but it still seems to indicate what people want, doesn't it? > > But does it. Without costs having been mentioned once, I cant see that > people were voting with the full facts. Please read Simon Cooke's earlier post, and then reconsider what you just said. Thankyou. -- James R Curry hc95jc@dmu.ac.uk "When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it'd be fun and exciting, you know, like that movie, 'Spaceballs'. But instead it's been painful and disturbing like that movie 'Police Academy'." - Homer Simpson, the Simpsons. The official James R Curry web page is under construction! Stand by. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 14:09:46 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:02:48 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9703201402.AA01201@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 293 Lines: 11 > > > 2) A Sam-based (SRAM " ) board but including future Z380 > > > expandability -- 12.5% > > > > > > > I take it this means only 8 people voted :) > > > Yep, but it still seems to indicate what people want, doesn't it? Populistically it does, statistically it doesn't. -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 14:09:47 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:04:57 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: VOTING RESULTS] Message-Id: <19970320140525Z49212-27987+362@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 545 Lines: 21 Date: 1997-03-20 14:06 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "James R Curry" >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:37:13 GMT >Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS] > >> > 2) A Sam-based (SRAM " ) board but including future Z380 >> > expandability -- 12.5% >> > >> >> I take it this means only 8 people voted :) >> >Yep, but it still seems to indicate what people want, doesn't it? IMO it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 14:26:41 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970320141325.00928a60@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:13:25 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS] In-Reply-To: <19970320140525Z49212-27987+362@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 218 Lines: 11 At 09:04 AM 3/20/97 EST, you wrote: > >IMO it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. > >Nev. Well, I deliberately didn't vote 'cos I felt I was too close to it, and couldn't vote objectively. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 14:26:42 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:15:11 +0100 From: ft@edh.ericsson.se (Frode Tenneboe) Message-Id: <9703201415.AA01219@asmal.edh-net> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1522 Lines: 39 > > Oh sorry I spoke.... > > > > No, but really, who here is prepared to put up money for the development of > > the Z380 card that people have voted for? > > Well, Martin Rookyard and I have already put more than 200 UKP into the > development of it. If I was in the neighbourhood, this is something I would love to be involved in too.... > > > Me? Well, that would depend on who had resposibility for the project and > > who was involved. I'm not rich enough to throw money away so it would have > > to be a someone I had confidence in. > > > > Remember, I was not allowed to vote. But I can vote with the best voting > > slips available - those with the Queens head on them. > > > > So come on, convince me I should invest in the Z380 - cos so far the only > > things that have been put forward is Speed and Excitement. Speed we can do > > with, maybe. Excitement - for who? > > I'll leave that up to other people to do -- I, for one, am a little > biased. Actually, I think we need an entire new architecture, and am > getting more than a little disillusioned with the SAM at the moment. But > that's just me. I agree with you on this one actually. Not that I am against building on the existing desing. It really depends on two issues: 1) Are we going to make money, or 2) Are we going to make _lots_ of money. I have a couple of ideas for both scheemes. Both of them should include PCI - depending on the speeds available of course....some of the other ideas need some maturing.... -Frode From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 15:09:46 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:02:07 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: VOTING RESULTS? Message-Id: <19970320150236Z49211-27987+367@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 687 Lines: 29 Date: 1997-03-20 15:03 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:13:25 +0000 >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >From: Simon Cooke >Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS? > >At 09:04 AM 3/20/97 EST, you wrote: >> >>IMO it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. >> >>Nev. > >Well, I deliberately didn't vote 'cos I felt I was too close to it, and >couldn't vote objectively. > >Simon ditto (ish) so that's 8 votes plus me simon bob samsboss not voting that's er 12. I thort there were 50 odd on this list. therefore ::: it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. nev From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 15:16:10 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970320150851.00927810@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:08:51 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS? In-Reply-To: <19970320150236Z49211-27987+367@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 448 Lines: 16 At 10:02 AM 3/20/97 EST, Nev wrote: Well, I deliberately didn't vote 'cos I felt I was too close to it, and couldn't vote objectively. >ditto (ish) >so that's 8 votes plus >me simon bob samsboss not voting >that's er 12. >I thort there were 50 odd on this list. >therefore ::: it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. They all seem to lurk really... Nothing more, nothing less. Lurk lurk lurk lurk lurk. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 15:16:10 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970320150956.00926e10@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:09:56 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS? In-Reply-To: <19970320150236Z49211-27987+367@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 188 Lines: 9 Nev - if you're interested, there's a copy of the ATAPI CD-ROM spec on http://eris.sss.co.uk/samdev, in the archive section. :) Connections are pretty slow until late at night.. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 15:20:43 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970320151456.0092a7f0@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:14:56 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: IDE interface In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970320150956.00926e10@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> References: <19970320150236Z49211-27987+367@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 157 Lines: 7 Nev -- just a query. Umm... what does setting the register port on the IDE interface to 255 do? And are any of the upper 3 bits significant at all? Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 15:30:34 1997 From: Gavin Smith Organization: University of Ulster To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:31:06 GMT Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <284DA046D9A@smserver1.ulst.ac.uk> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 717 Lines: 19 > ditto (ish) > so that's 8 votes plus > me simon bob samsboss not voting > that's er 12. > I thort there were 50 odd on this list. > therefore ::: it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. > > nev Or perhaps they didn't think their vote would have any effect whatsoever, apart from fuelling the arguement. I thought you and Bob had made up your mind that the SRAM card was the way to go, and now you are complaining that people didn't vote? I did vote for the Z380 but obviously there was little point. Anyway, if thats what you've decided, let's get started! If I can help in anyway whatsoever. I have only limited hardware skills, but am learning fast and will help in any way I can. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 15:48:01 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:42:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@hilbert.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS] In-Reply-To: <19970320140525Z49212-27987+362@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 608 Lines: 14 On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, YOUNG Neville, IT Life wrote: > IMO it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. I'm beginning not to care. I'm beginning to think neither would see the light of the day..... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 20 17:02:42 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:49:17 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: VOTING RESULTS? Message-Id: <19970320164947Z49211-27987+377@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1184 Lines: 40 Date: 1997-03-20 16:49 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Gavin Smith" >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:31:06 GMT >Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS? > >> ditto (ish) >> so that's 8 votes plus >> me simon bob samsboss not voting >> that's er 12. >> I thort there were 50 odd on this list. >> therefore ::: it shows that most people don't care or can't be bothered. >> >> nev > >Or perhaps they didn't think their vote would have any effect >whatsoever, apart from fuelling the arguement. I >thought you and Bob had made up your mind that the SRAM card was the >way to go, and now you are complaining that people didn't vote? I did >vote for the Z380 but obviously there was little point. >Anyway, if thats what you've decided, let's get started] If I can >help in anyway whatsoever. I have only limited hardware skills, but >am learning fast and will help in any way I can. > I repeat from my mail of 27/2/97 AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH Right thats it. I'm not spending any more time on the SRAM. Just use the Bruce's RAM/ROM board that we already have. Nev. (abandoning ship) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Fri Mar 21 14:33:18 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: neutron.mono.org: unc owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:21:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Paveley To: Sam Users Mailing List Subject: Happy Easter Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 485 Lines: 15 Hi all, Well, dplinux is down for a week due to it's main processor dying, by the time it comes back up, and I get to read all the sam-users email, I'll be sat eating hotcross buns at my parents :) So, happy easter, hope I'm not missing out on any fantastic flame wars or anything. ;) Tim ....@/ .............................................................................@/ Unc - Tim Paveley - Moderator of "The Games Room" & "Ascii Animations" http://www.mono.org/~unc/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 23 11:55:19 1997 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 06:51:02 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970323065059_-1571590109@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Happy Easter Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 86 Lines: 5 Looks like everyone has cleared off for Easter. Some people have all the luck. Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 23 12:15:36 1997 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:58:17 GMT Message-Id: <199703231158.LAA19586@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1346 Lines: 35 On Mar 20, 1997 11:34:08, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >At 06:06 PM 3/19/97 GMT, you wrote: >> >>So, the big question is: who is going to pay for it? > >Why does that matter to *you* Samsboss? > >As I've said before, people are willing to pay for it so that they can do >it just for the hell of it. > >Simon > Well, put simply, if the money is available to fund development then I am happy to help in any way I can. However, if it is not, then the help should go to the part of the project that does have funding. Without wishing to cause offence, you yourself have admitted not having enough time to work on things you started long ago. From what I have heard of Martin Rookyard he has yet to finish any project he has started - remember we are still waiting for the video digitiser from the days of Samco. Now before you bite my head off, I know he has other calls on his time and it is true that he will have to do it for the love of the job because there will never be any money in it. But with that said, what would your estimate be as to the time scale to get working hardware for a Z380 board that is not just a 'speed-up' device for the existing Sam? And how much is needed to get it to the stage where a couple of dozen development systems could be produced? -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 23 15:31:23 1997 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:24:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Si Owen To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: A Question of Speed In-Reply-To: <19970318151721Z49184-27987+137@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Message-ID: Organisation: Wordcraft International Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 614 Lines: 15 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Simon Cooke wrote: > Single issues cost 2.00 UKP each, 4-issue subs cost 6.00 UKP. Cheques to > M.Rookyard. What issue number is it up to? If I can afford to catch up on them I will! Si /------------------------------------+----------------------------------------\ | Si Owen | Home: si@obobo.demon.co.uk | | Wordcraft International Ltd, UK | Work: sowen@wordcraft.co.uk | | Fax: +44-1332-295525 | WWW: www.obobo.demon.co.uk | \------------------------------------+----------------------------------------/ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 23 17:51:33 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:48:13 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <199703231158.LAA19586@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> from "Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com" at Mar 23, 97 11:58:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 877 Lines: 19 > will never be any money in it. But with that said, what would your estimate > be as to the time scale to get working hardware for a Z380 board that is > not just a 'speed-up' device for the existing Sam? And how much is needed > to get it to the stage where a couple of dozen development systems could be > I agree that a SRAM card is going to much more usable in the short term than any hardware device, but I've got a horrible feeling that the only software we'll get for it are things which put up fancy graphics when you boot the SAM and then revert to a mildly modified normal ROM. But then I suppose the main point is that we have a tweakable BASIC and DOS object code. On a completely different theme, I thought you all might like to know that my interface to link a PC keyboard to a SAM is very nearly finished... I hope to have more news within the week! Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 09:10:52 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970324085652.00929e70@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:56:52 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! In-Reply-To: <199703231158.LAA19586@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1687 Lines: 37 At 11:58 AM 3/23/97 GMT, you wrote: >Well, put simply, if the money is available to fund development then I am >happy to help in any way I can. However, if it is not, then the help should >go to the part of the project that does have funding. Fair enough. >Without wishing to cause offence, you yourself have admitted not having >enough time to work on things you started long ago. From what I have heard >of Martin Rookyard he has yet to finish any project he has started - >remember we are still waiting for the video digitiser from the days of >Samco. Well, I think you'll find that SAMCo had a working design, and Martin had a contract regarding their use of it. The design was signed, sealed and delivered to them. He didn't get it back when the company went into receivership, which I take to mean that the design was bought up by Revelation, or Format. >Now before you bite my head off, I know he has other calls on his time and >it is true that he will have to do it for the love of the job because there >will never be any money in it. But with that said, what would your estimate >be as to the time scale to get working hardware for a Z380 board that is >not just a 'speed-up' device for the existing Sam? And how much is needed >to get it to the stage where a couple of dozen development systems could be >produced? To be honest, I don't know. The basic design is finished -- the things that would be nice to add to it are stuff like DMA channels, extra controllers, etc, but they don't take too long. THe only problem is finding somewhere to produce the boards -- it'd probably be a 3 or 4 layer one. Possibly 2 layer, but I couldn't commit at this time. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 10:50:25 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:43:43 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970324085652.00929e70@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from "Simon Cooke" at Mar 24, 97 08:56:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 762 Lines: 21 > Well, I think you'll find that SAMCo had a working design, and Martin had a > contract regarding their use of it. The design was signed, sealed and > delivered to them. He didn't get it back when the company went into > receivership, which I take to mean that the design was bought up by > Revelation, or Format. > I'm very confused about this digitiser business - I was under the impression that SAMCo actually got round to producing and selling the units as I seemed to recall reading a review in a disczine sometime. Was this so? > THe only problem is finding somewhere to produce the boards -- it'd > probably be a 3 or 4 layer one. Possibly 2 layer, but I couldn't commit at > this time. > Yes... and that z380 is going to e a bugger to solder! Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 13:20:23 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:12:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Happy Easter In-Reply-To: <970323065059_-1571590109@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 789 Lines: 19 On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 BrenchleyR@aol.com wrote: > Looks like everyone has cleared off for Easter. > > Some people have all the luck. Buggering off for Easter??? Eeek.. I'm supposed to have a holiday now. I'm a universtity student.. Arrgghh.. Final year project hand-in date soon.. Whaaaa!!!!! Where did I put my soldering iron??? Wait. That's at home. What am I doing here? Ermm... Bye.,. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 13:20:23 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:13:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 581 Lines: 14 On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew M Gale wrote: > Yes... and that z380 is going to e a bugger to solder! Ermm.. Not really.. I've had experience soldering a PLCC socket.. Mucho fun.. (not) -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 13:51:36 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:46:02 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970324084550_987870012@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS! Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1264 Lines: 33 In a message dated 24/03/97 09:00:15, you write: >>Well, put simply, if the money is available to fund development then I am >>happy to help in any way I can. However, if it is not, then the help should >>go to the part of the project that does have funding. > >Fair enough. > >>Without wishing to cause offence, you yourself have admitted not having >>enough time to work on things you started long ago. From what I have heard >>of Martin Rookyard he has yet to finish any project he has started - >>remember we are still waiting for the video digitiser from the days of >>Samco. > >Well, I think you'll find that SAMCo had a working design, and Martin had a >contract regarding their use of it. The design was signed, sealed and >delivered to them. He didn't get it back when the company went into >receivership, which I take to mean that the design was bought up by >Revelation, or Format. No, it was not part of the deal I originaly signed (AFAIR). I thought the design had been withdrawn because it was a) not good enough, and b) too expensive to make. The last I heard was that Adrian Parker had been talking to Martin about a new version he was working on. I know I at least put the two of them in contact at one point. > [snip] > >Simon > > Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 14:04:07 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:54:41 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Soldering King (was VOTING RESULTS]) Message-Id: <19970324135457Z49186-27987+742@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 575 Lines: 22 Date: 1997-03-24 13:52 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:13:07 +0000 (GMT) >From: Justin Skists >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Subject: Re: VOTING RESULTS] > >On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew M Gale wrote: > >> Yes... and that z380 is going to e a bugger to solder] > >Ermm.. Not really.. I've had experience soldering a PLCC socket.. Mucho >fun.. (not) > Just remembering the look on Bob's face when I said, " shall I put the old Z80 back in then?" I did and it worked. Nev :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 14:19:24 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:12:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Soldering King (was VOTING RESULTS]) In-Reply-To: <19970324135457Z49186-27987+742@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1113 Lines: 27 On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, YOUNG Neville, IT Life wrote: > >On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew M Gale wrote: > > > >> Yes... and that z380 is going to e a bugger to solder] > > > >Ermm.. Not really.. I've had experience soldering a PLCC socket.. Mucho > >fun.. (not) > > > Just remembering the look on Bob's face when I said, > " shall I put the old Z80 back in then?" > I did and it worked. WHen I was little, I soldered all three legs of the voltage regulator in my Speccy together. Well, I did accidently break the legs whilst playing with the heatsink and I had to fix it before my Dad found out... Suprisingly enough, it didn't work after that. Then again, I wouldn't have bought the SAM if I didn't wreck the Speccy... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 20:41:27 1997 Message-ID: <3336E5DE.69BE@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:36:46 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sams users mail list Subject: ISA & PCI pin outs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1572 Lines: 125 Hi Now I'm sure _somebody_ asked for this. ISA SLOT PIN OUT B A 1 GND I/O CH CHK/ 2 RESET SD07 3 +5V SD06 4 IRQ9 SD05 5 -5V SD04 6 DRQ2 SD03 7 -12V SD02 8 0WS SD01 9 +12V SD00 10 GND I/O CH RDY/ 11 SMEMW/ AEN 12 SMEMR/ SA19 13 IOW/ SA18 14 IOR/ SA17 15 DAC3/ SA16 16 DRQ3/ SA15 17 DACK1/ SA14 18 DRQ1/ SA13 19 REFRESH/ SA12 20 BCLK SA11 21 IRQ7 SA10 22 IRQ6 SA09 23 IRQ5 SA08 24 IRQ4 SA07 25 IRQ3 SA06 26 DACK2/ SA05 27 T/C SA04 28 BALE SA03 29 +5V SA02 30 OSC SA01 31 GND SA00 D C 1 MEMCS16/ SBHE 2 I/OCS16/ LA23 3 IRQ10 LA22 4 IRQ11 LA21 5 IRQ12 LA20 6 IRQ15 LA19 7 IRQ14 LA18 8 DACK0/ LA17 9 DRQ0 MEMR/ 10 DACK5/ MEMW/ 11 DRQ5 SD08 12 DACK6/ SD09 13 DRQ6 SD10 14 DACK7/ SD11 15 DRQ7 SD12 16 +5V SD13 17 MASTER/ SD14 18 GND SD15 pci PIN OUT B A 1 -12V NC 2 NC +12V 3 GND NC 4 NC NC 5 VCC VCC 6 VCC INTA# 7 INTB# INTC# 8 INTD# VCC 9 PST#1 NC 10 NC VCC 11 PST#2 NC 12 GND GND 13 GND GND 14 NC NC 15 GND RST# 16 CLK VCC 17 GND GNT# 18 REQ# GND 19 VCC NC 20 AD31 AD30 21 AD29 NC 22 GND AD28 23 AD27 AD26 24 AD25 GND 25 NC AD24 26 CBE#3 INDSEL 27 AD23 NC 28 GND AD22 29 AD21 AD20 30 AD19 GND 31 NC AD18 32 AD17 AD16 33 CEB#2 NC 34 GND FRAME# 35 IRDY# GND 36 NC TRDY# 37 DEVSEL# GND 38 GND STOP# 39 LOCK# NC 40 PERR# SDONE 41 NC SBO# 42 SERR# GND 43 NC PAR 44 CBE#1 AD15 45 AD14 NC 46 GND AD13 47 AD12 AD11 48 AD10 GND 49 GND AD09 50 51 52 AD08 CBE#0 53 AD07 NC 54 NC AD06 55 AD05 AD04 56 AD03 GND 57 GND AD02 58 AD01 AD00 59 VCC VCC 60 NC NC 61 VCC VCC 62 VCC VCC Don't ask me what the mnemonics stand for. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 20:41:27 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:02 -0500 (EST) From: BillRitman@aol.com Message-ID: <970324153659_-536354796@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Hi, I'm new. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 201 Lines: 10 Hi everybody, I'm Bill, a Sam Coupe owner from Exeter. Heard of this mailing list and thought it would be worth giving it a try. What is going on at the moment? Bill. [At the bottom end of the M5] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 24 20:49:23 1997 Message-Id: From: ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Andrew M Gale) Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:44:16 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <970324153659_-536354796@emout17.mail.aol.com> from "BillRitman@aol.com" at Mar 24, 97 03:37:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 360 Lines: 11 > I'm Bill, a Sam Coupe owner from Exeter. Heard of this mailing list and > thought it would be worth giving it a try. > > What is going on at the moment? Er, just now very little. Most of us are students and since it's the Easter holiday things are likely to be quiet for the next few weeks. But you can expect a well-stuffed mailbox after Easter... Andy From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 25 09:04:24 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:01:15 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Hi, I'm new. Message-Id: <19970325090128Z49191-27987+824@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 651 Lines: 27 Date: 1997-03-25 08:57 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: BillRitman@aol.com >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >Subject: Hi, I'm new. > >Hi everybody, > >I'm Bill, a Sam Coupe owner from Exeter. Heard of this mailing list and >thought it would be worth giving it a try. > >What is going on at the moment? > Hi Bill. I'm old. A Sam Cra^h^houpe owner. Mostly nothing going on just now as most of the children are on school holidays. (Hurrarh.) There is an archive of past posts somewhere. If you want them (you don't) then put up a message and some body will let you know where they are. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 25 10:15:12 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:10:17 -0500 (EST) From: BrenchleyR@aol.com Message-ID: <970325051016_-1972473850@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Soldering King (was VOTING RESULTS]) Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 402 Lines: 19 In a message dated 24/03/97 13:56:15, you write: >> >>On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Andrew M Gale wrote: >> >>> Yes... and that z380 is going to e a bugger to solder] >> >>Ermm.. Not really.. I've had experience soldering a PLCC socket.. Mucho >>fun.. (not) >> >Just remembering the look on Bob's face when I said, >" shall I put the old Z80 back in then?" >I did and it worked. > >Nev :) Flash git... Bob. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Tue Mar 25 11:52:44 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:49:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@napier.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. In-Reply-To: <970324153659_-536354796@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 803 Lines: 23 On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 BillRitman@aol.com wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I'm Bill, a Sam Coupe owner from Exeter. Heard of this mailing list and > thought it would be worth giving it a try. Hi, Bill. Welcome. Ritman, Ritman. Where have heard that surname before?? > What is going on at the moment? Nothing much. Everyone's either on Easter holidays, working their bottoms off, or hiding.. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 11:27:55 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:12:08 GMT Message-Id: <199703261112.LAA06289@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1005 Lines: 32 On Mar 24, 1997 15:37:02, 'BillRitman@aol.com' wrote: >Hi everybody, > >I'm Bill, a Sam Coupe owner from Exeter. Heard of this mailing list and >thought it would be worth giving it a try. > >What is going on at the moment? Very little Bill, its gone very quiet cos many on this list are studants and they get _long_ holidays. You wait to they get back, then your mailbox wont know whats hit it. Two words of warning. Don't, whatever you do, support Bob Brenchley - or you will be accused of being Bob Brenchley. (they are like that on this list) Second. Always agree with Andrew Collier - if you don't then the flame war can get very hot. Even if you do agree with him, on every last thing he says, he is bound to argue with you over something - but at least you wont need the flameproof outfit too often. > > >Bill. >[At the bottom end of the M5] Anywaysup, welcome, come in, sit down, be making yourself at home. -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com 2 thirds of the way up the M6. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 11:39:32 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:36:31 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. - Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 969 Lines: 27 > Very little Bill, its gone very quiet cos many on this list are studants > and they get _long_ holidays. You wait to they get back, then your mailbox > wont know whats hit it. It's always been the way - watch out for the 'Silly Fortnight' as the stoodents come back :) > Two words of warning. Don't, whatever you do, support Bob Brenchley - or > you will be accused of being Bob Brenchley. (they are like that on this > list) *yawn* > Second. Always agree with Andrew Collier - if you don't then the flame war > can get very hot. Even if you do agree with him, on every last thing he > says, he is bound to argue with you over something - but at least you wont > need the flameproof outfit too often. *yawn* Welcome to the list, it'd be good to have a read of the archives that Ian Collier keeps - I would give the address, but I've lost it and I would have to read the archives to get it back... urp... Dan Doore @The unfashonable end of Westminster :) From imc Wed Mar 26 18:46:59 1997 Subject: Archive To: sam-users@nvg.unit.no Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:46:59 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 336 Lines: 7 I'm afraid the archive at http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/ian.collier/ Misc/sam-users/ is out of service at the moment (it does contain one week's worth from mid-February) because (a) I'm leaving for a week and didn't have time to update it, and (b) we are short of disk space at the moment. Apologies for the inconvenience. imc From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 19:08:13 1997 Subject: SAMs in their natural habitat To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:04:24 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <19970326190445Z49166-27987+972@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 398 Lines: 12 Hi everyone, For the new people on the list, I just thought I'd let you know that I'm typing this on my SAM. Direct. To the internet. Using a dial-up internet provider (through a terminal shell mind you). Thought it was time to raise some interest from people again... and to let everyone know that even if people can't agree on projects, some other ones are still going ahead. Simon Cooke From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 20:00:58 1997 Message-ID: <33397F73.2623@ndirect.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:56:35 +0000 From: Neville Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sams users mail list Subject: not an archive Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 116 Lines: 7 Hi Bill, If you want I have _all_ the posts going back to 18/12/96. If you want them (1631) mail me direct. Nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 20:37:50 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:29:32 -0500 (EST) From: BillRitman@aol.com Message-ID: <970326152858_2096891356@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 552 Lines: 26 In a message dated 25/03/97 11:50:28, you write: >On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 BillRitman@aol.com wrote: > >> Hi everybody, >> >> I'm Bill, a Sam Coupe owner from Exeter. Heard of this mailing list and >> thought it would be worth giving it a try. > >Hi, Bill. Welcome. > > Ritman, Ritman. Where have heard that surname before?? Don't know, its not a common name. > >> What is going on at the moment? > >Nothing much. Everyone's either on Easter holidays, working their bottoms >off, or hiding.. > > Wish I could have a holiday. Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 20:37:50 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:30:53 -0500 (EST) From: BillRitman@aol.com Message-ID: <970326153040_1983558430@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 926 Lines: 28 In a message dated 26/03/97 15:07:09, you write: >Very little Bill, its gone very quiet cos many on this list are studants >and they get _long_ holidays. You wait to they get back, then your mailbox >wont know whats hit it. > >Two words of warning. Don't, whatever you do, support Bob Brenchley - or >you will be accused of being Bob Brenchley. (they are like that on this >list) > >Second. Always agree with Andrew Collier - if you don't then the flame war >can get very hot. Even if you do agree with him, on every last thing he >says, he is bound to argue with you over something - but at least you wont >need the flameproof outfit too often. >> >> >>Bill. >>[At the bottom end of the M5] > >Anywaysup, welcome, come in, sit down, be making yourself at home. >-- > >Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com >2 thirds of the way up the M6. Thanks for the warning. Will keep my head down until I see what is going on. Bill From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 20:37:50 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:32:29 -0500 (EST) From: BillRitman@aol.com Message-ID: <970326153211_921035424@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. - Reply Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 390 Lines: 20 In a message dated 26/03/97 15:37:23, you write: >Welcome to the list, it'd be good to have a read of the archives that Ian >Collier >keeps - I would give the address, but I've lost it and I would have to read >the >archives to get it back... urp... > >Dan Doore > >@The unfashonable end of Westminster :) > > > Thanks. And may I ask which is the fashonable end of Westminster? Bill. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Wed Mar 26 21:45:32 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:30:57 GMT Message-Id: <199703262130.VAA16937@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: SAMs in their natural habitat From: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) Cc: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no X-PipeUser: samsboss X-PipeHub: uk.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) X-Mailer: Pipeline v3.5.0 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 758 Lines: 26 On Mar 26, 1997 19:04:24, 'Simon Cooke ' wrote: >Hi everyone, > >For the new people on the list, I just thought I'd let you know that I'm >typing this on my SAM. Direct. To the internet. Using a dial-up internet >provider (through a terminal shell mind you). That sound quite interesting. Have my trust PC most of the time but it would be nice to use Sam to do the job as well. > >Thought it was time to raise some interest from people again... and to >let everyone know that even if people can't agree on projects, some other >ones are still going ahead. When, and how much? And will we need a Comms interface cos Bob has said there are not many left? > >Simon Cooke > -- Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 09:03:10 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970327085019.00926100@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:50:19 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAMs in their natural habitat In-Reply-To: <199703262130.VAA16937@pipe1.uk.pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1708 Lines: 40 At 09:30 PM 3/26/97 GMT, you wrote: >>For the new people on the list, I just thought I'd let you know that I'm >>typing this on my SAM. Direct. To the internet. Using a dial-up internet >>provider (through a terminal shell mind you). > >That sound quite interesting. Have my trust PC most of the time but it >would be nice to use Sam to do the job as well. It's nice to be able to trust my code :) The comms software I use on the PC in MSDOS has a nasty habit of locking up every 5 minutes or so... Termite doesn't have any of these problems... >> >>Thought it was time to raise some interest from people again... and to >>let everyone know that even if people can't agree on projects, some other > >>ones are still going ahead. > >When, and how much? And will we need a Comms interface cos Bob has said >there are not many left? When... well, a preliminary, freebie version could go up on NVG within the next month or two. The version with file handling support, fax support and other stuff depends on when I get time to finish it. As for the comms interfaces, yes, you'll need one. You'll also need to make two or three mods to it -- one tantalum (0.1uF) capacitor across the power supply to the serial UART to get rid of the HF spikes, one diode inside the +Vcc line to the chip (to drop it by about 0.8V), and a pin swap on the 9-pin D connector, to let you use hardware flow control. After all that, you've got a fully functional serial comms interface, to about 38400 baud. After that, and you start to cripple the SAM because so many interrupts occur that the SAM can't handle all the new data, and it'll lock up. Unless, of course, we get a Comms chip with a larger FIFO. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 09:25:52 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:17:51 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: SAMs in their natural habitat Message-Id: <19970327091807Z49157-27987+1033@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 973 Lines: 29 Date: 1997-03-27 09:14 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:50:19 +0000 >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >From: Simon Cooke >Subject: Re: SAMs in their natural habitat > >At 09:30 PM 3/26/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>For the new people on the list, I just thought I'd let you know that I'm >>>typing this on my SAM. Direct. To the internet. Using a dial-up internet >>>provider (through a terminal shell mind you). > is that a PPP connection ? > >>> >>>Thought it was time to raise some interest from people again... and to >>>let everyone know that even if people can't agree on projects, some other >>>ones are still going ahead. >> >When... well, a preliminary, freebie version could go up on NVG within the >next month or two. The version with file handling support, fax support and >other stuff depends on when I get time to finish it. Oh yes pleeze. (and sources?) nev. From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 09:45:39 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970327093743.0092c400@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> X-Sender: scooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:37:43 +0000 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no From: Simon Cooke Subject: Re: SAMs in their natural habitat In-Reply-To: <19970327091807Z49157-27987+1033@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1019 Lines: 27 At 04:17 AM 3/27/97 EST, you wrote: >>>>For the new people on the list, I just thought I'd let you know that I'm >>>>typing this on my SAM. Direct. To the internet. Using a dial-up internet >>>>provider (through a terminal shell mind you). >> >is that a PPP connection ? Nope - fraid not. Just a dial-in connection to a terminal, somewhat akin to dialling a BBS. >>>> >>>>Thought it was time to raise some interest from people again... and to >>>>let everyone know that even if people can't agree on projects, some other >>>>ones are still going ahead. >>> >>When... well, a preliminary, freebie version could go up on NVG within the >>next month or two. The version with file handling support, fax support and >>other stuff depends on when I get time to finish it. > >Oh yes pleeze. (and sources?) Ummmm..... dunno about sources :) To a select few, maybe... Besides, all the nice stuff is already appearing in BOAI - such as the Butterfly Print routine, how to use the comms interface, that kind of stuff.. Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 10:06:46 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:01:46 EST From: "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: SAMs in their natural habitat Message-Id: <19970327100204Z49166-27987+1038@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 668 Lines: 25 Date: 1997-03-27 09:57 Priority: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:37:43 +0000 >To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >From: Simon Cooke >Subject: Re: SAMs in their natural habitat > >>is that a PPP connection ? > >Nope - fraid not. Just a dial-in connection to a terminal, somewhat akin to >dialling a BBS. Oh well. still good though. > >>Oh yes pleeze. (and sources?) > >Ummmm..... dunno about sources :) To a select few, maybe... Besides, all >the nice stuff is already appearing in >BOAI - such as the Butterfly Print ^^^^ Not turning blue with holding breath. Honest. :) From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 10:39:22 1997 Subject: Re: SAMs in their natural habitat To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:31:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Simon.Cooke@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Cooke) In-Reply-To: <19970327100204Z49166-27987+1038@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> from "YOUNG Neville, IT Life" at Mar 27, 97 05:01:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Simon Cooke Message-Id: <19970327103131Z49166-27987+1041@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no> Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 232 Lines: 9 > >>is that a PPP connection ? > > > >Nope - fraid not. Just a dial-in connection to a terminal, somewhat akin to > >dialling a BBS. > Oh well. still good though. Well... if anyone wants to help write the TCP-IP stack... :) Simon From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 11:46:16 1997 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:28:07 +0000 From: Dan Doore To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Sam Users Members List Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1923 Lines: 59 It's about time I did another one of these, so here it is... Dan. ---- Last update: Thursday 27th March 1997 11:19 am Name Address ---------------------------------------- Allan Skillman allan@hpopb1.cern.ch Andrew Collier asc25@hermes.cam.ac.uk Andrew Gale ee31ag@ee.surrey.ac.uk Arne Di Russo ar@RMnet.it Ben Verstaag ben@charm.il.ft.hse.nl Bill Ritman BillRitman@aol.com Bob Brenchley BrenchleyR@aol.com Colin Macdonald Gouranga@aol.com Colin Piggot c_piggot@hotmail.com Dan Doore DOOREDJ@parliament.uk Dave Fulton D.A.Fulton@durham.ac.uk Dave Handley d.handley@lancaster.ac.uk Dave Hooper d.c.hooper@sms.ed.ac.uk Dave Ledbury et al persona@hands-on.ltd.uk Dave Whitmore davewhitmore@enterprise.net David Zambonini D.M.Zambonini@cs.cf.ac.uk Dean Liversidge dean@error.demon.co.uk Frode Tenneboe ft@edh.ericsson.se Gavin Smith smith-gc@ulst.ac.uk Ian Collier Ian.Collier@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Ian Dalziel IDalziel@idalziel.demon.co.uk J.K Ogden se94jko@ex.ac.uk Jeff Crawford? samcoupe@cadderly.demon.co.uk Johnna Teare j.d.teare@uclan.ac.uk Join Hampton Jon_Hampton@iconex.mactel.org Justin Skists c93js1@dmu.ac.uk Lee Willis l.willis@comp.brad.ac.uk Luke Trevorrow blackadder@orinocco.demon.co.uk M. G. Smith mchu4mgs@fs2.ee.umist.ac.uk Neil Maynard mne2@cableol.co.uk Nev Young nevilley@ndirect.co.uk Nev Young gbh3rknr@ibmmail.com Robert van der Veeke rjvveeke@caiw.nl Simon Cooke simon.cooke@umist.ac.uk Simon Owen sam-users@obobo.demon.co.uk Slawomir Grodkowski slawek@math.uni-goettingen.de Stacey Witney switney@huggable.demon.co.uk Stefan Drissen Stefan_Drissen@nl.coopers.com Stephen Harding sh5655@bristol.ac.uk Stephen Harding sh5655@irix.bris.ac.uk Stewert Skardon sskardon@argonet.co.uk Tim Paveley unc@dplinux.sund.ac.uk Tim Wells tgw1001@cam.ac.uk janowska@usctoux1.cto.us.edu.pl samsboss@uk.pipeline.com 101762.2062@compuserve.com fro0206p@ From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 12:07:54 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:56:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@nutmeg.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. In-Reply-To: <970326152858_2096891356@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 816 Lines: 24 On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 BillRitman@aol.com wrote: > > Ritman, Ritman. Where have heard that surname before?? > > Don't know, its not a common name. I was thinking about Jon Ritman. The famous Speccy games programmer.. > >> What is going on at the moment? > > > >Nothing much. Everyone's either on Easter holidays, working their bottoms > >off, or hiding.. > > > Wish I could have a holiday. And me... -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 12:32:10 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:23:04 -0500 (EST) From: Gouranga@aol.com Message-ID: <970327072302_-1872840496@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: yet more vaguely relevent stuff for sale... Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 452 Lines: 16 OK, after the resounding success of the last batch of items I offered up here, I thought I'd see if anyone was interested in what I've got left : Philips CM8833/II Monitor with SAM and Amiga leads. Excellent nick. 100 ukp Spectrum 48K with Saga keyboard 2 x Sinclair microdrives ZX Printer Multiface One Opus discovery and, ahem, an Amiga A500 with 2Mb, +1000 discs and lots more. 100 ukp Any offers to DigAdd@aol.com or ring 01382 535963 Colin From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Thu Mar 27 19:23:40 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:17:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Skists X-Sender: c93js1@nutmeg.cms.dmu.ac.uk To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. In-Reply-To: <199703261112.LAA06289@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1630 Lines: 36 On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com wrote: > Very little Bill, its gone very quiet cos many on this list are studants > and they get _long_ holidays. You wait to they get back, then your mailbox > wont know whats hit it. Holidays? Wanna swap places, Samsboss??? (The student who is frantically trying to get his project on its way) > Two words of warning. Don't, whatever you do, support Bob Brenchley - or > you will be accused of being Bob Brenchley. (they are like that on this > list) Just because the writing styles are similar and you both have the same opinions that no-one else on this list has. Your secrecy doesn't exactly help in this matter.. > Second. Always agree with Andrew Collier - if you don't then the flame war > can get very hot. Even if you do agree with him, on every last thing he > says, he is bound to argue with you over something - but at least you wont > need the flameproof outfit too often. Third. Agree with me from time to time since no-one seems to take my thoughts seriously (if they don't ignore them, that is). Then again, I suppose not finishing a project that I said would be done doesn't exactly help either. Happy Easter, folx.. I won't be back til next week sometime.. -- ============================================================================= |Justin Skists (c93js1@dmu.ac.uk) | Artificial Intelligence: | |BSc (Hons) Computer Science, Year 4 | Making computers behave like | |De Montfort University, Leicester, England | they do in the movies. | ============================================================================= From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sun Mar 30 15:23:41 1997 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new. References: <199703261112.LAA06289@pipe2.uk.pipeline.com> X-Mammoth-Status: Aware Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Uncle Bulgaria Date: 30 Mar 1997 15:17:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: samsboss@uk.pipeline.com's message of Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:12:08 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/Emacs 19.34 Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 1618 Lines: 44 samsboss@uk.pipeline.com (Samsboss@uk.pipeline.com) writes: > On Mar 24, 1997 15:37:02, 'BillRitman@aol.com' wrote: > > >Hi everybody, > > > >I'm Bill, a Sam Coupe owner from Exeter. Heard of this mailing list and > >thought it would be worth giving it a try. > > > >What is going on at the moment? > > Very little Bill, its gone very quiet cos many on this list are studants > and they get _long_ holidays. You wait to they get back, then your mailbox > wont know whats hit it. > Hmm, and some of us have jobs _as well_ so we're still here ... > Two words of warning. Don't, whatever you do, support Bob Brenchley - or > you will be accused of being Bob Brenchley. (they are like that on this > list) You'll have to excuse samsboss, you see there's a very frequent *discussion* on this list about who he is 'coz he refuses to tell us, and several people have accused him of being Bob (Including me, I'll admit it ...) It's just very suspicious that's all, no doubt you'll see what we mean soon enough ... > Second. Always agree with Andrew Collier - if you don't then the flame war > can get very hot. Even if you do agree with him, on every last thing he > says, he is bound to argue with you over something - but at least you wont > need the flameproof outfit too often. Not _quite_ true but you'll get the idea .... Nice to meet you btw. Lee. -- With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. [ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/rfc/rfc1925.txt.gz] From owner-sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Mon Mar 31 19:42:45 1997 Message-Id: <199703311838.TAA19527@hermes.clara.net> From: Paul Lacey To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Where's the pages Organisation: lgb X-Mailer: Atlantis Mail 16, Version 1.0 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 97 18:25:08 BST Reply-To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Status: RO Content-Length: 68 Lines: 3 Can anyone mail me ASAP with Unc's SAM Scrapbook's address? Cheers